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Old 02-18-2014, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
No one element is "making Texas less southern." And it's not "less southern" just because it's not "deep South." It's still southern as heck - just not mint juleps on the veranda southern. It's a Texas sort of southern.
I'd say that it's natural that east Texas is "less southern" than the deep south just as west Texas is "less southern" than east Texas, and eastern New Mexico while still southern is "less southern" than west Texas. Till finally you get to a place like Willcox, Arizona which has some southernness to it but is pretty much the western edge of "southerness."
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:35 AM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I'd say that it's natural that east Texas is "less southern" than the deep south.
Much of East Texas is the Deep South, though, and it can hardly be said the region is less southern than anywhere else.

Deep and Southeast Texas are akin to the Deep South regions of South Louisiana and southern Mississippi. Northeast Texas is more reminiscent of the "Upper Deep South"/Mid-South regions of Arkansas, North Louisiana, northern Mississippi, and western Tennessee. East Texas does all of this with a Texas twist, though. Just like Louisiana puts their own spin on things

Just my observation.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
Much of East Texas is the Deep South, though, and it can hardly be said the region is less southern than anywhere else.

Deep and Southeast Texas are akin to the Deep South regions of South Louisiana and southern Mississippi. Northeast Texas is more reminiscent of the "Upper Deep South"/Mid-South regions of Arkansas, North Louisiana, northern Mississippi, and western Tennessee. East Texas does all of this with a Texas twist, though. Just like Louisiana puts their own spin on things

Just my observation.
I don't necessarily disagree other than to say that the "deep south" IMO has a larger african american population percentage wise than does east Texas and has a much longer antebellum history than does east Texas. However, I think that the deep south and east Texas have many similarities that east Texas and west Texas don't even share.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Washington D.C. By way of Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I'd say that it's natural that east Texas is "less southern" than the deep south just as west Texas is "less southern" than east Texas, and eastern New Mexico while still southern is "less southern" than west Texas. Till finally you get to a place like Willcox, Arizona which has some southernness to it but is pretty much the western edge of "southerness."
That's stretching it.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:11 PM
 
Location: The Magnolia City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I don't necessarily disagree other than to say that the "deep south" IMO has a larger african american population percentage wise than does east Texas and has a much longer antebellum history than does east Texas. However, I think that the deep south and east Texas have many similarities that east Texas and west Texas don't even share.
All of the Deep South does not have a large black population, though. There are plenty of majority white areas in both Louisiana and Mississippi. When Houston was incorporated as a city, about half of its population was black slaves. Today, Beaumont is still around 50% black.

Also, I'm not sure how long chattel slavery would have had to be in place for what you consider the Deep South, but I do know that parts of Louisiana didn't have it widespread for much longer than East Texas. Either way, Southeast Texas had its cotton and its sugarcane fields.

Even if one were to disagree with the lower half of East Texas being part of the historical Deep South, today, it most certainly is, from a cultural standpoint.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Spade View Post
That's stretching it.
No doubt. Willcox, AZ- A town with southern roots so deep it's named after a Union general.
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by LAX-PHX View Post
No doubt. Willcox, AZ- A town with southern roots so deep it's named after a Union general.
Good point. It is important to note that Orlando Willcox was a hero in those parts not because of Union involvement in the Civil War but because of his role as Army director of operations in Arizona during the indian wars of the 1870s and 1880s. Particularly, the Apache which were in the area in which the community of Maley (later renamed Willcox) is located.

As I said, it is where "southernness" completely peters out. However, having LIVED in Willcox, it has a lot of similarities in terms of the towns in west Texas. Cattle and cotton was king for a very long time, and a lot of the early settlers came from Texas. That being said, I think Willcox is the only Arizona town really representative of southernness any more and it isn't near like it was years ago.

Finally, how can a town that has a place called BIG TEX BBQ not be a little southern?.

http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/76/78995...aurant-Willcox

Last edited by eddie gein; 02-18-2014 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:26 PM
 
353 posts, read 512,168 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Good point. It is important to note that Orlando Willcox was a hero in those parts not because of Union involvement in the Civil War but because of his role as Army director of operations in Arizona during the indian wars of the 1870s and 1880s. Particularly, the Apache which were in the area in which the community of Maley (later renamed Willcox) is located.

As I said, it is where "southernness" completely peters out. However, having LIVED in Willcox, it has a lot of similarities in terms of the towns in west Texas. Cattle and cotton was king for a very long time, and a lot of the early settlers came from Texas. That being said, I think Willcox is the only town really representative of southernness any more and it isn't near like it was years ago.

Finally, how can a town that has a place called BIG TEX BBQ not be a little southern?.
Willcox is a ranching/farming town for sure and certainly has an Old West flavor to it. It is the hometown of Rex Allen. However I still say it is quite a reach to compare it to anywhere in West Texas. I've been to the panhandle of Texas and there isn't anywhere in Arizona that compares to it. And I certainly wouldn't say Willcox is or anywhere else in Arizona is southern influenced in anyway. When you think of Willcox you think of a little cowboy town off of I-10 between Tucson and El Paso that has good green chiles. I don't think anyone would mistake it for anything remotely southern though.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,886 posts, read 6,209,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LAX-PHX View Post
Willcox is a ranching/farming town for sure and certainly has an Old West flavor to it. It is the hometown of Rex Allen. However I still say it is quite a reach to compare it to anywhere in West Texas. I've been to the panhandle of Texas and there isn't anywhere in Arizona that compares to it. And I certainly wouldn't say Willcox is or anywhere else in Arizona is southern influenced in anyway. When you think of Willcox you think of a little cowboy town off of I-10 between Tucson and El Paso that has good green chiles. I don't think anyone would mistake it for anything remotely southern though.
The Southwestern Historical Quarterly, Volume 71, July 1967 - April, 1968, Page: 26 | The Portal to Texas History

Again, having lived in Willcox I found it to be very similar to the towns in west Texas. Marfa, Tx/Alpine/Ft Davis. Tx would be similar to Willcox. The link above describes the Texas legacy to southeastern Arizona.

In general, before WWII, I'd say that Arizona's southwestern cowboy image was very much like southwest Texas but certainly not any more.

Again, I don't think Willcox IS southern but it is the place that the last vestiges of the Texas style southwest disappear and if we say that the Texas style southwest is "southern" then Willcox has some of that. Certainly Willcox isn't like any town east of the western third of west Texas.

The towns in Texas that most remind me of Willcox would be Alpine/Marfa/Ft. Davis.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:51 PM
 
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Missouri or Maryland. They are so un-southern that some residents will deny that they ever had a historical relation with the South. (Ironically, both of their main universities are now in southern conferences)
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