What is the northernmost Southern city? Southernmost Northern city? (fit in, house)

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by anonymous

The extent of slavery is a tremendously important factor in whether a place is "southern" or not. Referring to Illinois or Indiana as "southern" trivializes the impact that slavery had on the south.

Not true, because slavery existed in places that didn't necessarily depend on it.

[anonymous]

Originally Posted by ajf131

Not true, because slavery existed in places that didn't necessarily depend on it.

Right, and my contention is that slavery didn't have nearly the impact on southern Indiana and Illinois that it did on the southern states. Whether slavery existed or not isn't the issue. Slavery existed across most of North America at some point or another.

When I say the extent of slavery, I'm talking about the degree of it; the amount of it. I'm not talking about the geographic extent of it, and whether or not it existed.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by anonymous

The extent of slavery is a tremendously important factor in whether a place is "southern" or not. Referring to Illinois or Indiana as "southern" trivializes the impact that slavery had on the south.

I really can't think of a more important factor - southern music, food, language, politics, demographics and religion all stem from the hundreds of years of interaction between Africans and Europeans. It is really difficult to overstate the impact of it.

I agree. That is why Illinois and Indiana are not "southern", no matter how much anyone says they are. Anyone who fought for Illinois/Ind. in the Civil War fought for the north. Political boundaries do matter at times.

[TerrySRA]

EAST COAST:
Southernmost Northern city: Philly, PA
Northernmost Southern city: Cumberland, MD (Is that big enough to even count?)

MIDWEST:
Southernmost Northern city: St Louis, MO
Northernmost Southern city: Louisville, KY

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by ajf131

>>

D.C. is nowhere near as laid back as Richmond is, the climate is not the same, the attitudes and culture of the people in D.C. compared to Richmond are different. D.C. is leans more liberal I'd say, Richmond is conservative. What else needs to be said? I visited both cities and they felt worlds apart from one another. D.C. feels much more closely linked to Philadelphia and Baltimore than Richmond.

The climates of DC and Richmond are similar. The avg. high in DC is January is 43 the avg. low 28. In Richmond the avg. high is 47 the avg. low 28. The avg. high in Richmond in July is 88 the avg. low 68. Avg. high in DC 88 the avg. low 70.

Richmond city is not right-leaning. 58 percent of Richmonders are African-American. African-Americans are generally left-leaning. The current mayor is a Democrat. You might be right about metropolitan Richmond.

The architecture of DC and Richmond is MUCH more similar than the architecture between Baltimore and DC or Philly and DC.

Richmond:
http://www.historicrichmond.com/images/queenanne.gif (broken link)

DC:

[StuyTownRefugee]

Originally Posted by anonymous

The extent of slavery is a tremendously important factor in whether a place is "southern" or not. Referring to Illinois or Indiana as "southern" trivializes the impact that slavery had on the south.

I really can't think of a more important factor - southern music, food, language, politics, demographics and religion all stem from the hundreds of years of interaction between Africans and Europeans. It is really difficult to overstate the impact of it.

Yes but slavery existed in New York and elsewhere in the NE, but lasted longer in the South, and Maryland's tobacco crops were very dependent on it. The original name for Rhode Island was Blackstone Plantation. Slavery crops were not just cotton related. Cotton wouldn't grow in Va, as in MD, and like Kentucky produced tobacco. Cotton was Deep South mostly. The Border South practiced slavery like W.VA then fought with the North or was invaded as in Maryland's case and held, Antietam. It previously had existed in Brooklyn, NY and up the coast, but held on longer in NY. There were lynchings in NYC.

www.nydivided.com (broken link)

The Dread Scott Decision was in Missouri. The border states had slaves too.

Slavery shouldn't be the main criteria used to depict the border South.

[StuyTownRefugee]

Originally Posted by anonymous

Right, and my contention is that slavery didn't have nearly the impact on southern Indiana and Illinois that it did on the southern states. Whether slavery existed or not isn't the issue. Slavery existed across most of North America at some point or another.

When I say the extent of slavery, I'm talking about the degree of it; the amount of it. I'm not talking about the geographic extent of it, and whether or not it existed.

Exactly. I also look at the length of it in a certain area, slavery was practiced in Brooklyn, NY brought in by boats on the coastal waterways up and down the coast from other ports.

But much about it in the North has been hushed up, they got to rewrite history, or rewrite coverups.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by StuyTownRefugee

Slavery shouldn't be the main criteria used to depict the border South.

This is why I say Fort Lauderdale is the southernmost Northern city . It don't get more northern than here. No sweet tea, city was established by transplants from the north, and eventually city and surrounding areas invaded by transplants from the north. It's physically Southern but the only remnants of Southern culture are in small African American enclaves, and very small ones at that.

[ajf131]

Originally Posted by TerrySRA

EAST COAST:
Southernmost Northern city: Philly, PA
Northernmost Southern city: Cumberland, MD (Is that big enough to even count?)

MIDWEST:
Southernmost Northern city: St Louis, MO
Northernmost Southern city: Louisville, KY

Louisville is not part of the Midwest. No Southern city is a part of the Midwest. That defies the very definition of Midwestern. Let's say central United STates for lack of a better word.

[StuyTownRefugee]

Absolutely

Originally Posted by miamiman

The climates of DC and Richmond are similar. The avg. high in DC is January is 43 the avg. low 28. In Richmond the avg. high is 47 the avg. low 28. The avg. high in Richmond in July is 88 the avg. low 68. Avg. high in DC 88 the avg. low 70.

Richmond city is not right-leaning. 58 percent of Richmonders are African-American. African-Americans are generally left-leaning. The current mayor is a Democrat. You might be right about metropolitan Richmond.

The architecture of DC and Richmond is MUCH more similar than the architecture between Baltimore and DC or Philly and DC.

Richmond:
http://www.historicrichmond.com/images/queenanne.gif (broken link)

DC: