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No, but I get what you're saying. It's my opinion that the entire state of NY is totally out of balance, completely lopsided. That view is what I made my comments on. Look at what the OP said in post #6. Perhaps you should carry on the debate with him. Plus what Jesse said in post 51.
Perhaps there needs to be a more discreet definition of what exactly the OP means by imbalance. Then my statement "going away from each other" doesn't illustrate how you feel Upstate doesn't need "downstate"? No I don't get your reasoning there, but that's okay.
I am of the mind that upstate's decline as you pointed out also it has, that NYC never did anything to help that within the same state and insuch is parasitic-like on the state. Funny, funny state New York. I followed what Rwarky first asserted.
RE: NY, take a look at Billiam's map (#60). 'Nuff said!
(Thanks, Billiam, your map makes a better arguement for my point than I could!)
This map is very interesting. Some things that pop out at me:
Assuming I'm reading it correctly, two states (NH and WY) are completely dominated by cities in other states.
RE: number of cities which dominate states, I'd expect that populous states with large areas would be most likely to be dominated by multiple cities, but wasn't always the case. TX is dominated by 14 cities, CA and FL by 9, NY by 8, but look at KS: 10. Meanwhile, states with the least cities dominating are: NH 1, MA (barely) and RI 2, CT, MI, UT (barely) 3, CO and WY 4. Quite a mix in terms of area and population size. It's really not just about the state itself, it's about the surrounding states, too.
It appears that Iowa City residents report they are dominated by Chicago, but the areas to the west, south and immediately east of Iowa City report they are dominated by Iowa City.
There is some leapfrogging: MI's Upper Penninsula central area is dominated by Green Bay, but the UP's western area is dominated by Detroit, like the rest of the state.
Most of MN is dominated by the "Twin Cities", but areas to the SW of the TwinCities say they are dominated by "Minneapolis". Even odder, the extreme tip of MN's Arrowhead says it is dominated by "Minneapolis", while all of the 200+ miles between it and the Twin Cities report they are dominated by the "Twin Cities". Apparently, no one in MN responded "St. Paul"
About the leapfrogging thing, look at the area controlled by LA. The red dot on the west side is Santa Barbara, but areas controlled by Santa Barbara are more north.
And dayuummmm, look at the areas covered by Salt Lake City and Denver. Could you imagine being in Montana but being controlled by Denver?
Location: Uniquely Individual Villages of the Megalopolis
646 posts, read 805,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Around
RE: NY, take a look at Billiam's map (#60). 'Nuff said!
(Thanks, Billiam, your map makes a better arguement for my point than I could!)
Great map, but it doesn't do if for what I'm talking about which was on another larger scale. THere have been maps created to theorize changing states borders to be inclusive of other states' areas of influence and connectivity.
It's the typical NY split again here, divide on a regional and local scale, not at all the scale I was referring to. Typical NY breakdown in communications.
California
2008 Population: 36,756,666
GSP: $1,846,757,000,000
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside, CA CSA (incl. LA, Riverside, and Oxnard MSAs)
2008 Population: 17,786,419 (48.3% of California's population)
2008 GMP: $866,095,000,000 (46.8% of California's GSP)
San Jose-San Francisco- Oakland, CA CSA (incl. San Francisco, San Jose, Santa Rosa, Vallejo, Santa Cruz, and Napa MSAs)
2008 Population: 7,354,555 (20% of California's population)
2008 GMP: $508,418,000,000 (27.5% of California's GSP)
San Diego-Carlsbad-San Marcos, CA MSA 2008 Population: 3,001,072 (8.1% of California's population)
2008 GMP: $169,325,000 (9.1% of California's GSP)
Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Yuba City, CA-NV CSA (incl. Sacramento and Yuba City MSAs)
2008 Population (in CA): 2,376,145 (6.4% of California's population)
2008 GMP: $98,000,000 (5.3% of California's GSP)
Fresno-Madera, CA CSA (incl. Fresno and Madera MSAs)
2008 Population: 1,057,486 (2.8% of California's population)
2008 GMP: $26,485,000 (1.4% of California's GSP)
I think California's pretty balanced, but there is still much more attention devoted to SoCal (for good reason, since 56% of the state's population lives here) than NorCal.
I nominate Ohio (Columbus, Cleveland, and Cincinnati) and North Carolina (Charlotte, Raleigh-Durham, Winston-Salem) to be the most evenly balanced out state. Texas seems to be a bit more balanced than California since DFW and Houston are closer to population and economic prowess than SF and LA, but not that much more so (esp. since SF has way more influence proportionate to its size).
Most other states seem pretty unbalanced though. Finding balanced states is more rare.
I would think Los Angeles would have a fair amount of sway in California. If it doesn't why?
Looking up different states it seems
Anchorage dominates Alaska.
Atlanta-metro dominates Georgia.
Boston/Greater-Boston dominates Massachusetts.
Chicago-metro dominates Illinois
Denver-metro dominates Colorado.
Honolulu dominates Hawaii and appears to be their only incorporated city.
Las Vegas-metro dominates Nevada.
Minneapolis-St. Paul dominates Minnesota.
NYC-metro seems to dominate New Jersey, possibly New York too, which might make New Jersey the only state dominated by a metropolitan area not located in it. (Kansas and Kansas-City, Missouri might be close)
Phoenix-metro dominates Arizona.
Portland-metro dominates Oregon.
Providence-metro is apparently larger than the population of Rhode Island.
Salt Lake City dominates Utah.
Seattle-metro dominates Washington.
Although I could be mistaken on some of the above or missing an obvious one. (I'm thinking maybe Indianapolis could be seen as dominating Indiana and that Tucson might be important enough Arizona is incorrect)
Ohio seems to be a state with two cities, or possibly more, of nearly equal significance. North Carolina also seems to have a few metros of significance. Tennessee has two or more as does Texas. Anyway Ohio looks maybe the most "balanced" in my cursory examination.
I've always said Ohio was the most balanced state because three large cities each dominate different regions of the state. With most other states, there's usually at least one metro that's comprised of several cities that helps provide a balance, but with Ohio, that's not the case. Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus are *the* cities within their metro areas, with no secondary cities to share some of the shine with.
I would think Los Angeles would have a fair amount of sway in California. If it doesn't why?
LA does have a lot of influence in California, but not as much as its size indicates. It HAS more influence in overall CA affairs (political and economic) than the Bay Area, but I really don't think it holds 50% of the influence because of where the top 5% of Californian taxpayers live (think of what area of California has been better at generating wealth for the past 20 years).
But, in short, the state is really divided up into NorCal and SoCal, with each side pretty much staying to its own side. When you live in one side, you don't even really remember the other side exists unless you're going there yourself OR you're reminded of it when you watch the news. .
Anyways, the state is the way it is because power is almost monopolized in the state government by the Bay Area and LA acting TOGETHER, so we get a pretty urban makeup of a legislature that understands very little about the fact that there are issues outside of the big cities that need to be addressed. Hence why, in part, the state government is so dysfunctional.
The best way to put it is that California is bipolar. Sorry San Diego and Sacramento
Last edited by Lifeshadower; 04-18-2010 at 08:23 AM..
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