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Old 10-10-2013, 11:39 PM
 
241 posts, read 207,645 times
Reputation: 158

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You are obviously upset by the plight of your people and thats fine. Why dont you start a thread about just that and educate a few of us on it. You seem passionate about it, and Im sure most of us Americans have no idea whats happening over there.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:46 PM
 
73 posts, read 86,481 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlanynna View Post
FYI Im and American Indian........I have so many people arguing my peoples plight you would think it was their ancestors that it happened to. You have people offended over the Redskins right now and most of us dont even care. The post was about the Irish, its not like I just picked Irish people out of thin air, thats what the post was about...lol
You are just whacked out and crazy, or just overly sensitive. Who doesnt associate Irish with beer even the dear old Irish do.
You read way too much into my initial post , you whackadoodle.
I agree it is a bit ridiculous.

The difference is you don't see me making an American Indian joke on a thread about them, especially one mocking their plight, now do you? Yeah, everybody associates the Irish with drinking, and the only way the Irish are actually associated is the same way all people in Europe are. You're buying into a stereotype that was perpetrated by the English.

Or maybe I'm sick of people mocking the plight of the Irish or trying to cover it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlanynna View Post
You are obviously upset by the plight of your people and thats fine. Why dont you start a thread about just that and educate a few of us on it. You seem passionate about it, and Im sure most of us Americans have no idea whats happening over there.
No I'm just annoyed at seeing the double standards and the covering up of the history of people with my heritage.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:17 AM
 
241 posts, read 207,645 times
Reputation: 158
Ok Im just gonna end this discussion because this has gone in a whole different direction. I looked through all the post, including my own and there was no discussion about covering up the History of the Irish or anything about double standards. Just because people arent discussing the hidden history of the Irish plight doesnt make it a conspiracy to cover it up. Neither does it make me a bigot to associate Irish people with beer. How you got from there to me being a bigot and conspiring to cover up your history I will never know...goodnight
If its the stereotyping that got your panties in a knot. Maybe you should slap your own hands for calling the Black Power people of today uneducated. If I wanted to read more into it: I could say that you are calling black peoples stupid...see how that works

Last edited by Arlanynna; 10-11-2013 at 12:21 AM.. Reason: g
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:25 AM
 
73 posts, read 86,481 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlanynna View Post
Ok Im just gonna end this discussion because this has gone in a whole different direction. I looked through all the post, including my own and there was no discussion about covering up the History of the Irish or anything about double standards. Just because people arent discussing the hidden history of the Irish plight doesnt make it a conspiracy to cover it up. Neither does it make me a bigot to associate Irish people with beer. How you got from there to me being a bigot and conspiring to cover up your history I will never know...goodnight
If its the stereotyping that got your panties in a knot. Maybe you should slap your own hands for calling the Black Power people of today uneducated. If I wanted to read more into it: I could say that you are calling black peoples stupid...see how that works
It's not a conspiracy. The English have intentionally covered it up, and the rest of the world doesn't care.

Including many Americans with Irish heritage, which is sad. I am ashamed to admit I didn't even know about Irish slavery until I got to college.

I never said you conspired to come up with anything. I said you mocked the plight of the Irish, because you did. Had you made that kind of joke about any other group, I wouldn't have been the only one to call you out on it.

Except I wasn't. I said that compared to the original Black Power groups, today's groups are uneducated because they are. They don't know the bigger picture and their predecessors did. Moreover, their predecessors were the ones marching in the Civil Rights protests and getting attacked for it, not them.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,168 posts, read 36,386,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 058057 View Post
Do you know this for a fact?

I know the Irish came over to the South first, and many did so as slaves. Irish people who later moved of their own free will majorly came over to the North because there was more opportunity for them.
SOME Irish came to the US as slaves, and many more came as indentured servants. Slaves or indentured servants, they settled in both the North and the South - most of them were very poor.

Many Irish also settled in larger cities in the South, as free men and women, not as slaves (Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans predominately). I don't know where you are getting this idea that most of the Irish who settled in the South were slaves, and I asked you to provide a credible source for this claim, and you haven't done so. Frankly, I find this assertion ludicrous.

Irish Americans were among our founding fathers and signed both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, among other documents of importance during those times. However, the largest immigration of Irish to the US was during the famine of the 1800s in Ireland and settled all over the US, but predominately in the North, due at least in part to the fact that they had very little money or means to support themselves once they landed at Ellis Island. In other words, they didn't have the means to get far.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:44 AM
 
241 posts, read 207,645 times
Reputation: 158
Ok, my apologies to you for making that joke. Im still catching up on alot of history myself that I didnt get through public education ;-) Had I known there was such a history there I may have refrained from making such a statement. Goodnight
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:48 AM
 
73 posts, read 86,481 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
SOME Irish came to the US as slaves, and many more came as indentured servants. Slaves or indentured servants, they settled in both the North and the South - most of them were very poor.

Many Irish also settled in larger cities in the South, as free men and women, not as slaves (Charleston, Savannah, and New Orleans predominately). I don't know where you are getting this idea that most of the Irish who settled in the South were slaves, and I asked you to provide a credible source for this claim, and you haven't done so. Frankly, I find this assertion ludicrous.

Irish Americans were among our founding fathers and signed both the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution, among other documents of importance during those times. However, the largest immigration of Irish to the US was during the famine of the 1800s in Ireland and settled all over the US, but predominately in the North, due at least in part to the fact that they had very little money or means to support themselves once they landed at Ellis Island. In other words, they didn't have the means to get far.
Yes, and also the North had more opportunity for them. What would they do in the South? The South wasn't industrial until later. It was a completely agricultural, slave society.

The reason I say the South probably had more slave than free Irish is because I just don't see where there was real opportunity for the Irish. Sure, if they could farm or work on a farm or plantation, yes, but there was much more opportunity in the industrial North, especially for people working on the railroads, as the Irish had built the railroads in the UK.

You are probably right. Either way, what I was mostly trying to say is that they came as slaves moreso to the South than the North, and really most majorly in the Caribbean. Then when they came of their own free will in huge droves, they came to the North.
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Old 10-11-2013, 12:49 AM
 
73 posts, read 86,481 times
Reputation: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlanynna View Post
Ok, my apologies to you for making that joke. Im still catching up on alot of history myself that I didnt get through public education ;-) Had I known there was such a history there I may have refrained from making such a statement. Goodnight
No problem. You're not the first and won't be the last. At least you're trying to fix that.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Wonderland
45,168 posts, read 36,386,072 times
Reputation: 63962
Quote:
Originally Posted by 058057 View Post
Yes, and also the North had more opportunity for them. What would they do in the South? The South wasn't industrial until later. It was a completely agricultural, slave society.

The reason I say the South probably had more slave than free Irish is because I just don't see where there was real opportunity for the Irish. Sure, if they could farm or work on a farm or plantation, yes, but there was much more opportunity in the industrial North, especially for people working on the railroads, as the Irish had built the railroads in the UK.

You are probably right. Either way, what I was mostly trying to say is that they came as slaves moreso to the South than the North, and really most majorly in the Caribbean. Then when they came of their own free will in huge droves, they came to the North.
I honestly would rather work in a field than in a coal mine or in factory conditions in the 1800s. But hey, that's just me. And by the way, there were many farmers in the south on small farms, who didn't own slaves. There were also black and white sharecroppers - lots of them.

I really would like to see some stats on the actual number of Irish slaves in the American South though. I can't find ANYTHING that even implies that there was any significant number. All I can find is information on indentured servitude, very RARE instances of Irish slavery (both in the North and in the South), with the vast majority of Irish slaves being sold by the English to the colonies in the Caribbean.

Most poor Irish immigrants to the American South were in the same boat as any other poor people (German, Scottish, English, etc) immigrating there - they were what is known as "dirt farmers" who often were sharecroppers till they could manage to buy or otherwise acquire a small farm.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:47 AM
 
73 posts, read 86,481 times
Reputation: 33
You can't really put the Irish in the same category as those others because those other groups were merely the lower classes or other outcasts in those countries whereas the Irish had their country stolen from them.

I agree though, it's damn near impossible to find the actual stats.
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