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Old 11-06-2013, 02:50 PM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,391 posts, read 24,555,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Maybe (and especially because of the second part of your setence, because Houston hasn't been big for very long), but its hard to argue, and even you yourself have claimed, that Chicagos blue collared roots are much more entrenched into the citys culture (although in a different way than Houston, instead of Urban Cowboy you have "Da Bears superfans"), with its sports and streetfood obsessions (these are blue collared associated whether people want to agree with that or not).

In that way Chicago is like Philly. Rich culture, history but a blue collared vibe that impermeates the cities culture with regards again to the sports and streetfood (pizza/hotdogs/cheesesteaks/Italian beef), more so than NYC/SF/LA/DC.
Oh I'll definitely agree with that. But I would still lump Chicago *and* Philly above Houston, they are just too long established and have blue collar, but also a lot of those "blue bloods" and cultural sophisticates mixed in.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:18 PM
 
213 posts, read 308,185 times
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Houston is surprisingly very sophisticated and has an arts and social scene that is known internationally.


Dallas vs. Houston Art Rivalry - Art Scene in Texas - Town & Country
Houston | Modern Luxury
http://www.mensclaycourt.com//index.php
News - Social Scene - CultureMap Houston
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:38 PM
 
9,967 posts, read 14,607,998 times
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According one report Vallejo, California is apparently one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the US(though it's obviously debatable). Vallejo is tops in the nation in ethnic diversity - Vallejo Times Herald

Though probably the most sophisicated thing to come out of Vallejo was E-40--and a night at the theatre usually means a trip to Marine World, sorry, Six Flags Discovery Kingdom to watch Jocko's Walrus Experience.

On the other hand, Vallejo did give the world pioneering early 90s white rap group N2Deep and their classic hit "Back to the Hotel". If that's not sophisticated, I don't know what is....


N2Deep - Back To The Hotel - YouTube
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:42 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PostOak5115 View Post

agree but to me this does not make it sophiticated as a stand alone. Cleveland has internationally known cultural offerings as does my home town but not sure either are really sophiticated cities per se. Again nothing wrong with that. Honestly I dont most places are really sophiticated at a macro level. LA to me is not, hollywood is glamorous but not totallly sophisticated.
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,143,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
According one report Vallejo, California is apparently one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the US(though it's obviously debatable). Vallejo is tops in the nation in ethnic diversity - Vallejo Times Herald

Though probably the most sophisicated thing to come out of Vallejo was E-40--and a night at the theatre usually means a trip to Marine World, sorry, Six Flags Discovery Kingdom to watch Jocko's Walrus Experience.

On the other hand, Vallejo did give the world pioneering early 90s white rap group N2Deep and their classic hit "Back to the Hotel". If that's not sophisticated, I don't know what is....


N2Deep - Back To The Hotel - YouTube
I think this is kind of a good point. Diversity purley for diversity isnt sophiticated. Really has basically zero to do with it. Upper Darby PA is highly diverse but I would never consider it sophisticated (sorry Todd Rudgren and Tina Fey)
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Old 11-06-2013, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Near L.A.
4,114 posts, read 9,225,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Really. Care to explain?
About OC:

1. Irvine. Need I say more?

2. Newport Beach. Yep, I just did say more. This was seriously in OC Weekly in yesterday's edition: http://blogs.ocweekly.com/navelgazin...er_newport.php. Drive around there, there is also a license plate that says "WEALTH" on an expensive car. Gaudy much?

3. OC can't boast anything even remotely resembling a Walt Disney Concert Hall, two Gettys, LACMA, or the Norton Simon. The OC Performing Arts Center is actually fairly nice from what I hear...but it's just one arts facility in a county of 3.2 million, the fifth or six most populous place in the nation. Even that is fairly new.

Soka University and Laguna Beach have small colonies, but they really are small pockets. Plus, that area of south county (well, all of south county) is very arrogant, elitist and exclusionary (not particularly sophisticated), so it's not particularly fun to visit (I live in a south county area, so this is how I've learned). Laguna's arts also aren't as strong as they used to be, IMO, as the real estate nouveau riche have all but made it a ridiculously expensive enclave in which to live and do business.

Like I said, there are some older money (by West Coast standards) families in Newport and Yorba. But what's in the way of public arts and culture there? Even the culinary scene in Newport (and Laguna for that matter) is rather pretentious and not of the same scale as, say, San Francisco.

4. Crystal Cathedral, while attractive enough, is the most architecturally significant facility in the county. Talk about the symbol of crony religiosity (Schuyler family) at its finest...or among its worst, depending on how you look at it.

5. I've seriously had true gourmet dining in an unpretentious environment surrounded by spectacular scenery in small towns on the Central Coast or in the Bay Area. And it wasn't terribly expensive, either. I could go to a clean park in the Bay Area, hear six different languages spoken and overhear all kinds of intellectual conversations, and forget that I was 10 miles from San Francisco (and I'm not excusing the Bay Area of pretension, one can certainly find it up there). But OC is, for the most part, about mom stuff, oversized sunglasses, real estate, and surfing, and that's regardless of race.

6. Even women who aren't from OC agree with me that women (and men, too) who are from OC are pretentious, sheltered (that's unsophisticated, too) twits, so that makes for a difficult dating scene...regardless of race.

To give a little bonus point back, I must admit that Mission San Juan Capistrano is almost as old as the U.S. and rather a cool place to visit. They still have mass there to this day.

Last edited by EclecticEars; 11-06-2013 at 03:57 PM..
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Old 11-06-2013, 04:09 PM
 
9,967 posts, read 14,607,998 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
I think this is kind of a good point. Diversity purley for diversity isnt sophiticated. Really has basically zero to do with it. Upper Darby PA is highly diverse but I would never consider it sophisticated (sorry Todd Rudgren and Tina Fey)
Yes, increasingly a lot of the most diverse areas of the country are in the suburbs--many of them fairly average middle class(or lower class) suburban areas(I realize Upper Darby is a denser old East Coast-style suburb though). For every area like parts of Brooklyn whose demographics read like roll call at the UN, there are areas in pretty bland suburban strip mall and ranch house neighborhoods that are full of an incredibly diverse population(and great ethnic food). It's not to say that suburbs can't be sophisticated, though at the same time most of middle class suburbia really isn't...

And I'm not knocking the mostly unsophisticated areas of the country that basically make up the majority of the US(hell, most of my family and relatives until the last generation or two were as unsophisticated and plebian as they come)--at the same time though we're more a country of pop culture than high culture these days.

Last edited by Deezus; 11-06-2013 at 04:29 PM..
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:18 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,779,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
agree but to me this does not make it sophiticated as a stand alone. Cleveland has internationally known cultural offerings as does my home town but not sure either are really sophiticated cities per se. Again nothing wrong with that. Honestly I dont most places are really sophiticated at a macro level. LA to me is not, hollywood is glamorous but not totallly sophisticated.
Hollywood is just one small part of LA. LA still has lots of culture in the more traditional sense totally apart from the entertainment scene. I live in LA, and I barely know the entertainment scene exists, theres so much to do. I am just down the road from Pasadena with multiple art museums (Norton Simon, the Huntington, Asia-Pacific, etc., a world class university, a playhouse, an annual film festival, etc.). Not to mention one is minutes away from the edge of the San Gabriel mountains wilderness. And Pasadena is considered a suburb.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:24 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,779,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticEars View Post
About OC:

1. Irvine. Need I say more?

2. Newport Beach. Yep, I just did say more. This was seriously in OC Weekly in yesterday's edition: Person Who Sent Tweet Touting Newport Beach After LAX Shooting on Friday Fired: Update. Drive around there, there is also a license plate that says "WEALTH" on an expensive car. Gaudy much?

3. OC can't boast anything even remotely resembling a Walt Disney Concert Hall, two Gettys, LACMA, or the Norton Simon. The OC Performing Arts Center is actually fairly nice from what I hear...but it's just one arts facility in a county of 3.2 million, the fifth or six most populous place in the nation. Even that is fairly new.

Soka University and Laguna Beach have small colonies, but they really are small pockets. Plus, that area of south county (well, all of south county) is very arrogant, elitist and exclusionary (not particularly sophisticated), so it's not particularly fun to visit (I live in a south county area, so this is how I've learned). Laguna's arts also aren't as strong as they used to be, IMO, as the real estate nouveau riche have all but made it a ridiculously expensive enclave in which to live and do business.

Like I said, there are some older money (by West Coast standards) families in Newport and Yorba. But what's in the way of public arts and culture there? Even the culinary scene in Newport (and Laguna for that matter) is rather pretentious and not of the same scale as, say, San Francisco.

4. Crystal Cathedral, while attractive enough, is the most architecturally significant facility in the county. Talk about the symbol of crony religiosity (Schuyler family) at its finest...or among its worst, depending on how you look at it.

5. I've seriously had true gourmet dining in an unpretentious environment surrounded by spectacular scenery in small towns on the Central Coast or in the Bay Area. And it wasn't terribly expensive, either. I could go to a clean park in the Bay Area, hear six different languages spoken and overhear all kinds of intellectual conversations, and forget that I was 10 miles from San Francisco (and I'm not excusing the Bay Area of pretension, one can certainly find it up there). But OC is, for the most part, about mom stuff, oversized sunglasses, real estate, and surfing, and that's regardless of race.

6. Even women who aren't from OC agree with me that women (and men, too) who are from OC are pretentious, sheltered (that's unsophisticated, too) twits, so that makes for a difficult dating scene...regardless of race.

To give a little bonus point back, I must admit that Mission San Juan Capistrano is almost as old as the U.S. and rather a cool place to visit. They still have mass there to this day.
Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there whatsoever. I'm not a fan of or interested in living in OC. Its just as expensive as LA County but yes, without the culture. I'd actually probably rather live in Riverside where at least one can afford a decent house. I had no idea you were going to compare OC with the rest of California. In this case, yes - I TOTALLY agree.

But even with all this, I would still say that there is still more sophisticated things in OC than most small metro areas of under 500,000 in most of the rest of the country. Its really just suburban thats all. But suburban areas outside world class cities still have access to a lot more culture than most parts of the country.

I will also add that, IMO North OC is a lot less pretentious, more middle class ethos, and more connected to LA proper.
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Old 11-06-2013, 05:45 PM
 
5,835 posts, read 10,779,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Oh yeah, I'm not disagreeing with you there whatsoever. I'm not a fan of or interested in living in OC. Its just as expensive as LA County but yes, without the culture. I'd actually probably rather live in Riverside where at least one can afford a decent house. I had no idea you were going to compare OC with the rest of California. In this case, yes - I TOTALLY agree.

But even with all this, I would still say that there is still more sophisticated things in OC than most small metro areas of under 500,000 in most of the rest of the country. Its really just suburban thats all. But suburban areas outside world class cities still have access to a lot more culture than most parts of the country.

I will also add that, IMO North OC is a lot less pretentious, more middle class ethos, and more connected to LA proper.
I'll also add a couple more things, the Bowers museum I thought was pretty cool for a suburban museum. I will add that Santa Ana although the more neglected OC town, actually probably has some of the most culture.

I also generally like the beaches a lot. The OC unlike LA County still has intact salt marsh/estuaries for bird habitat (Bolsa Chica, Upper Newport Bay, and Seal Beach naval base (although thats basically off limits as its part of the military). But yeah, just for visits, not to live there.
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