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"One of the greatest cities of the world, Cahokia was larger than London was in AD 1250."
"Cahokia's population at its peak in the 1200s was among the largest cities in the world, and its ancient population would not be surpassed by any city in the United States until the late 18th century."
There was a whole rich Mississippi River culture with cities extending from Wisconsin to the delta and east to the Atlantic; They extracted copper from Upper Michigan and traded with other natives all the way down to South America.
Educate yourself.
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This is but one example of pre-European "Indian" culture. Sans a plague that makes the Black Death seem like sniffles, Euros may never have "settled" this country at all - 96% of them were wiped out by small pox: Guns Germs & Steel: Variables. Smallpox | PBS
I agree that the "noble savage" idea is bunk and these people were conquerors just like the Euros. Let's not pretend, however, that your average native has it good at this point and "just needs to get over" the genocide sanctioned by the same government that still governs them. Check out a rez some day. I think most would find it quite shocking, depending on the tribe (some have done well with gov money/gambling).
Regarding that hill (OMG a Native HILL in Illinois!). I wonder how people today are able to calculate a population that existed there almost a thousand years ago when the Native tribes didn't even have an advanced language by which to document their history. If the experts insist though I will oblige.
I have no desire to visit one of those reservations out on the great plains. Those people are not required to live on them. They could leave and create something of their lives. They are fortunate to live in the most prosperous country on earth. Billions of others in this world would give their limbs to be in the place that those Natives are today.
Keep in mind though I actually grew up just about 15 minutes from an Native A. reservation. I'm from Naples, FL and the Seminole tribe was just down the street from where I grew up. They were cool people and went to school with a lot of their children. I don't think the terrible poverty that grips the mountain west tribes affects them as much.
You really do not know what you are talking about, do you? The Mississipian tribes lived in a city called Cahokia for over 200 years. The city was larger then contemperous London. You dont think they had to build structures to house the people and food?
And do you really think the European settlers that first got here found a virgin landscape? Of course they didnt! The Indians had been adapting the land for centuries and there was plenty of evidence of large scale farming socieities. The reason the Americas appeared pristine was because diseases brought over by Europeans killed 90+% of all the people in less then a century.
Ah, and you know this, eh? Were you there? Sounds to me like you are just making excuses for these people. And again, you all bring up that hill.
Also keep in mind that with the Native's lack of immune defense against diseases that their demise was imminent. There was nothing that could have saved them. And it was just by chance that it was white people that first arrived to introduce these new sicknesses upon them. It could have just as easily been the Japanese or Arabs. It isn't our fault that Europeans just happened to land here first.
Ah, and you know this, eh? Were you there? Sounds to me like you are just making excuses for these people. And again, you all bring up that hill.
Also keep in mind that with the Native's lack of immune defense against diseases that their demise was imminent. There was nothing that could have saved them. And it was just by chance that it was white people that first arrived to introduce these new sicknesses upon them. It could have just as easily been the Japanese or Arabs. It isn't our fault that Europeans just happened to land here first.
I dont disagree that the diseases were going to kill massive amounts of people, whether is came from Asia or Europe or Africa made no difference. Spain was just lucky enough to reap the massive benefits from the results.
And the Europeans themselves kept accounts of how they came across empty villages up and down the coast. Hell, if you read Hernando DeSoto's account of the Mississipian peoples and then the account of LaSalle less then 100 years later, it is clear that a massive calamity destroyed the native Indians and their culture with it.
And Cahokia's population cannot be know for certain, however, based on the evidence of housing foundations, food storage centers, the pallisade wall that was built, and the massive amounts of garbage left behind, its easy to see the city was a MAJOR city that was probably equal to the large European centers of the time.
I can't believe CravingAttention hasn't fleed this thread due to embarassment. What a glutton! Clearly misinformed about the history of this country and everyone can see it. The best "defense" is "I think I would know more than scientists who have spent their lives studying it?" Wow.
I can't believe CravingAttention hasn't fleed this thread due to embarassment. What a glutton! Clearly misinformed about the history of this country and everyone can see it. The best "defense" is "I think I would know more than scientists who have spent their lives studying it?" Wow.
I'm still here. And where did I say this exactly? "I think I would know more than scientists who have spent their lives studying it?"
The sentence is not in any of my posts. I haven't posted anything even similar to that sentence.
You are questioning the FACT that there was a large, permanent Midwestern city which was the pre-European center of a vast native civilization. You are doing so because it clearly conflicts with this false statement you made prior to several people pointing this out to you:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains
With the exception of tribes in the Southwest, Natives that we had here in the US didn't build structures. They were a mostly nomadic people and never settled anywhere for long.
Instead of backing off and admitting that you were unaware of this confirmed history like most others would, you continue digging yourself a bigger rathole because...because...why exactly aren't you admitting you were wrong again?
Prior to European contact Native Americans were a war mongering people running around without clothing who practiced cannibalism. You want these cultural traits in America today?
People need to learn more about what the Natives were like. The Disney movie Pocahontas couldn't be further from the truth when depicting the natives.
Native Americans never had a concept of country or city , they just moved around from place to place.
Today we have two types of Native Americans , CITY Native Americans and country Native Americans that more country in their way of life.
But they are not having many kids may explain the lack of more 1% being Native Americans.
As a predominantly Native American guy, it's hard for me to say if we'll ever be a larger minority. I grew up in the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma in the southeastern quadrant of the state where Native Americans are a large minority, also including northeastern Oklahoma. Also, I prefer the term "Native American" rather than "American Indian."
I can't believe CravingAttention hasn't fleed this thread due to embarassment. What a glutton! Clearly misinformed about the history of this country and everyone can see it. The best "defense" is "I think I would know more than scientists who have spent their lives studying it?" Wow.
He did the same thing in a thread about Asians. He talked out of his ass in another two thread, one of Asians and one of Arabs. I'm surprised he hasn't said you're Native American yet.
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