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I am a foreign student from NZ coming to study in your great country for a term After hours of research I have concluded that I wish to study at a university in the Midwest, a region that I feel showcases the American image that I see when I think of the US.
This leaves me with the following universities to choose from:
ILLINOIS
University of Illinois (Urbana-Champaign)
INDIANA
University of Notre Dame (South Bend)
KANSAS
University of Kansas (Lawrence)
MISSOURI
University of Missouri (Columbia)
University of Missouri (St. Louis)
Westminster College (Fulton)
MINNESOTA
St. Olaf College (Northfield)
University of Minnesota (Minneapolis)
From that list where would you say would be best for a NZ student to study? I have to pick 5 and rank them in order of preference. Notre Dame is my clear favourite; it's near Chicago, a city I have always wanted to visit, and I worked out that it would only cost me ~$50 for a return trip on Amtrak.
So based on that my current top 5 are:
1. University of Notre Dame
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
I am pretty sure I don't want to study at Illinois because of the overwhelming Greek life presence, something that I - as a foreigner - feel is pretty moronic and something I am not accustomed to.
I am also weary about Missouri (both campuses) because Columbia is too isolated and St. Louis seems to have a bad reputation, as does that branch of UM.
University of Minnesota looks a good fit, however, I am concerned about the size of the school and have heard that Minneapolis is more like a Canadian city than American - which is not the experience I want.
Kansas has no negatives in my mind. It has good transport links to Kansas City and is in a quintessential American city. This looks like it's my number 2 choice.
Westminster College is too isolated but looks a very nice city.
Same for St. Olaf.
If anyone can offer specific advice/guide on ranking them... what would you say?
I attended the University of Kansas and absolutely loved it; it's in a very diverse college town with a reasonable distance from Kansas City. You should be aware that Greek life is fairly prominent on that campus as well (as you mentioned that being a negative). A willingness to at least casually follow Kansas basketball is also helpful as it is the one social unifier on campus.
I attended the University of Kansas and absolutely loved it; it's in a very diverse college town with a reasonable distance from Kansas City. You should be aware that Greek life is fairly prominent on that campus as well (as you mentioned that being a negative). A willingness to at least casually follow Kansas basketball is also helpful as it is the one social unifier on campus.
Thanks for the quick reply
I didn't notice greek life being a problem at KU. All I found from googling Greek life at KU was some animal abuse at a frat, which reinforces my view of frats being moronic. I LOVE basketball (I follow the Bulls) so that's a plus!
I have friends in NZ who would be appalled at some of the stupid stuff frat boys do. I don't know of any college campus that does not have fraternity and sorority on campus. Even small private university like Bradley U has it. I believe it is Princeton Review that asks students about their schools. The last time I looked at it WVA, Iowa, and UIUC are in the top 5 party schools. When you speak of schools north of 1-80 it is Canadian Cold. This includes Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Notre Dame and Chicago. Sub-zero temperatures are normal and so is snow and ice.
A word about schools. The US education system is different than NZ. Kids don't graduate from high school until age 18 or 19. College is a new experience. Weekend parties, and tailgate parties are part of the learning experience. The hangover has the only educational value. If you want that 4.0 GPA, then stick to books and ignore the other stuff. Schools are two term, Aug-Dec. Jan-May. Nevertheless, you can get an excellent education at UICU and the University of Iowa. Iowa City is much larger that Champaign. Most college towns lean liberal. Notre Dame is a Catholic university in Indiana. Most flagship universities are also research schools, as it Notre Dame. University of Illinois is in Chicago. Northwestern is in Evanston, a Chicago suburb. IL has very good schools from Kindergarten to Doctorate.
If an education is important and size of a town is not an issue you might look at ISU in Normal, IL. It has the second largest Amtrak depot in Illinois. It has 1 of 15 top Actuary schools in North America. There are trains every day to Chicago, and it is closer than Champaign UIUC. The local transit is excellent and so is the school transportation. The campus student population at all levels of study was 20,000. Is is 100+ miles south of Chicago; the winters are not as brutal. Let me be clear. Moving from Chicago to Normal is similar to moving from Auckland to Dairy Flats - except Dairy Flats is larger.
If you are from a very large city, you will not be happy in a small town as much of the Midwest is agriculture. IA and IL are the top producers of corn. If you are from a large city you will be overwhelmed by Chicago's 10M population. If you want to explore the Midwest you need a car. Some of the things you can experience in Illinois is fresh maple syrup, Amish community life - nothing like Maori life - Native American powwow, and more.
The thumb of Wisconsin -Door County- is very interesting. You can experience a summer "corn boil" and some other events too. The Minneapolis Winter Festival is huge but it is usually very cold. Each state and each region has different types of foods and entertainment
The US political system is different than NZ. US has the third largest population in the world with 310 million people. Depending upon where you live you may find churches from around the world as well temple and mosque. You can also find poverty, squalor, and trouble.
If you are catholic Notre Dame will feel very familiar. If not it will be a learning experience. You will get an excellent education. You might like UM at Ann Arbor, Michigan. Its term is trimester. Many of the grad students in Chicago are from Iowa, Ann Arbpr, Notre Dame and Illinois. Ask in the Chicago forum. You will see a wider range of opinions.
Illinois @ Urbana/Champaign - Illinois outside of Chicago is a strange state that's always struck my as not quite sure what it wants to be. I know UIUC is a good school, but I totally understand your aversion to Greek life. There's barely any at my alma mater either and I've never seen the appeal.
Notre Dame - Obviously it's a fabulous school and the closest to Chicago of any on your list. You might get here and find that it is much harder to get to and from Chicago than you were expecting, but I can't imagine Notre Dame students don't drive back and forth all the time, so I'm sure you'll have a good experience.
Kansas @ Lawrence - Lawrence is right there at the edge of the KC metro, which is awesome, KC is one of my favorite cities. Lawrence itself is fine, but Kansas as a state is generally not that exciting. It may not have much basis in reality, but most people seem to heavily prefer the Missouri side of KC to the Kansas side.
Missouri @ Columbia - Another one of those great schools in the middle of nowhere. I would be concerned that you would be a little too isolated to get a good sense of the country or even the region.
Missouri @ St. Louis - Don't be scared of St. Louis, it's a seriously kick-ass city with amazing culture and amenities. The school is less well-regarded than Columbia, though, that's true.
Westminster - I don't know much about it, but I would imagine it will be a similar situation to Columbia.
St. Olaf - This one actually isn't as isolated as I think you are thinking. It's less than an hour from the Twin Cities, and as you say, Northfield itself is fantastic. St. Olaf will be a polar opposite experience to something like Notre Dame or Kansas, but it's one of the top liberal arts schools in the region. Really strong fine arts there.
Minnesota @ Minneapolis - When people say Minneapolis is Canadian they just mean it has very liberal politics and the people are polite and reserved (and the accent is similar, sort of), but it's American through and through. It's sort of the smart, artsy younger sister of Chicago - like if Chicago is New York, Minneapolis is Boston. If you want an urban American experience, this is far far far and away your best bet from this list. The campus is right there next to downtown Minneapolis, you'll have easy transit to St. Paul, the airport, the Mall of America, etc.
If I were to rank these options based on what you seem to want:
1. Notre Dame
2. Minnesota
3. Kansas
4. St. Olaf
5. Missouri @ Columbia
Is there a reason these are the only schools you're considering (like a partnership with your home school)? It seems like you're mostly focused on the western half of the Midwest. If you're able to look at other schools besides these, you should really think about some of these...
University of Minnesota (Duluth)
University of Wisconsin (Madison)
University of Iowa (Iowa City)
Luther College (Decorah, Iowa)
University of Nebraska (Lincoln)
There really isn't anything strange about Illlinois. It is an agriculture state that is interrupted by several midsize pockets of communities the size of Dairy Flat. Most everything else is corn, soybeans, lakes and forests. .
Make sure you are aware of the weather in the Midwestern US. Some of the states I see mentioned like Wisconsin, Minnesota and Michigan are very cold places in winter, something a Kiwi has never experienced. Twenty and thirty below zero temperatures do happen in these places, and parts of Michigan downwind from the lake get FEET of snow a year or should I say meters of snow from a non US point of view. Lots of pretty country up there but always best to go into something eyes wide open. The lower Midwest states like Illinois and Indiana are a bit more mild, but still very cold in winter. Im sure all those schools listed will provide a quality education, and the Midwest has a lot of things to offer the OP if the cold is not an issue.
Thanks for your most informative replies - I really appreciate it
Those are the only universities in the Midwest that my uni has partnerships with; there are none in Iowa, Wisconsin or Michigan like others have suggested.
There are a few non-Midwestern unis on my list. I do not want to be in the east of the US - I much prefer the look of the midwest and west so that leaves me with:
ARIZONA
Arizona State University (Tempe)
University of Arizona (Tucson)
CALIFORNIA
San Francisco State University (San Francisco)
University of California (All Campuses)
NEW MEXICO
University of New Mexico (Albuquerque)
OREGON
Oregon State University (Corvallis)
Reed College (Portland)
University of Oregon (Eugene)
I agree with you that, as a sweeping generalization, you will find more of the "quintessential American experience" in the midwest. I can't really argue with Notre Dame or Kansas being your top choices. Many of your options will offer strong basketball culture and I think you're putting too much weight on Illinois' Greek Life. You should keep it on your list of considerations.
Also note that Notre Dame is very rich in history and tradition, perhaps in a different way than the other schools on your list. (Sweeping generalizations again but with some truth) It is a very old Catholic school, and it's private, and the students there are generally paying a lot more tuition or come from wealthier families than people at your average state school. Not knocking it in any way...I visited the campus when I was a kid and was awe struck by the prestige and culture that seemed on display everywhere I looked. But it shares less in common with all the large flagship state universities on your list.
What are you studying and do you have more specifics of what you're looking for? Will you have a car and driver's license?
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After hours of research I have concluded that I wish to study at a university in the Midwest, a region that I feel showcases the American image that I see when I think of the US.
