Texans considering Knoxville, TN or Greenville, SC

[xhgz]

Originally Posted by marcolus

*LONG thread, my apologies in advance for the short-focused or time-restrained.
**The short version: considering Knoxville, TN or Greenville, SC to move to and looking for tips/comparisons. The 'What we're looking for' paragraph narrow this down for what we hope to find. Hopefully you'll be able to read all though. Thanks!

Where we're from:
I was born in Houston, live in San Antonio and lived in Texas all but one year of my life; Jackson, MS for a year was the exception. My mother is in Houston, as are most of my life long friends, with some close ones here in SA. Rest of my family is in AZ and CO. My wife's parents live here in SA for the last 30 years (from WV originally) and she's been here all her life. Her extended family is in WV, NC, VA areas. That's our background.

Who we are:
We love the social and political climate of Texas in general. We believe in Jesus and the Bible and want to be able to have a community of believers around us. SA is overall more liberal than the rest of the state (except Austin), and we find it just fine to have that close community and plenty of like minded people. We are conservative and favor small government with limited involvement and don't think we could live in a Portland or San Francisco area (could be wrong) as it would probably drive us crazy. However at the same time we tolerate the rights of anyone to have the beliefs they want and don't want to infringe upon anyone else's rights to believe what they want to or promote something different than what we prefer. We just want to live peacefully with more people that think and believe about life like we do than don't. That's our mindset, generalized. Wife is going to do a residency next year that will take us to another city (Houston, Atlanta, Salt Lake City, Philly are top spots for her residency) as SA doesn't have one for Physical Therapists. So that's what's got us in the market, amongst other things.

Work:
I'm in real estate, broker and appraiser. My wife is finishing her doctorate in physical therapy. So we are curious about the medical field/industry there and any info on jobs or accurate salaries for a PT. Also info on how the real estate market is there would be great. And if I were to lucky enough to get appraiser info (commercial, industrial, farm/ranch, not residential) that'd be a cherry on top, but no biggie if I can't get that specific.

Reasons to move:
1) The weather here is brutal in the summer months and we don't really get a true winter. That's one reason we are looking around at spots to move. I would be fine in Colorado, Utah, Montana, Idaho type weather, but my wife would not so we need something a bit more temperate. Some snow is ok, just don't want 6 months a year of frozen tundra. Also don't want obliterating summers. (SA gets to 100 most days for 3-4 months, Houston is even worse and with higher humidity). We are looking for more of the 4 seasons environment.

2) Live in a smaller, mid-sized city, and TX doesn't have a great alternative, for us; and I hate/loathe traffic. I know I'll never completely avoid it, but taking an hour to go 10-15 miles is (to me) insanity defined. Houston and Dallas/Ft. Worth are just too monstrous, and Austin fits a lot of what we're looking for, but the atmosphere is too liberal and the traffic 10 times worse than SA. However, that type of outdoorsy, healthy, laid back community is appealing.

3) SA is in a drought and it's been tough on outdoor activities for a multitude of reasons (Medina Lake about 30 minutes west of SA is 97% GONE for example). We've lost some water sports and the landscape is just, kinda ugly. We want the smoky mountain type of hills/mountains feel, so that's a big pull.

4) Another reason is to find a more cycling friendly city. The streets here in SA are in poor condition overall, most drivers are not very savvy or safe, there are not many dedicated bike lanes, and even if there were, tons of cars would be parked in them. I've tried. So being able to bike to work if I wanted or just take the future kiddos out for family things would be nice. We love the SA greenbelt, but it's very limited and doesn't really connect far through the city.

What we're looking for:
Covered some of this in the 2nd paragraph, but here are specifics we are hoping for. We want the mid sized city, with a strong outdoor factor and healthy atmosphere, that's more conservative than liberal (generally speaking), with moderate but distinct seasons, and where cost of living isn't through the roof. A lot to ask, right?

We don't care about fancy cuisine, tons of money and ritzy places, or big airports (we drive for travel mostly) or beaches. We prefer laid back, cultured, rustic natural places with a history and a touch of modern. Love small towns with little main streets and antiques. (As an example, Asheville NC would fit a lot of things, but it's too small and possibly too liberal from what we've gathered; but we would love to visit there plenty). Not huge on plays/theater/opera/museums. We love trail running, road and mountain biking, rivers/lakes water activities, and camping.

Places of interest:
I would move to Boise, Salt Lake City, parts of Colorado, Spokane, or Montana in a heartbeat; possibly Arizona. But considering my wife and our marriage, those aren't options and that's ok.

Top Spots (this is where we need more help):
We have done a lot of online research ourselves, spent way too much time on zillow/trulia/realtor playing the hypothetical house game, and even more than that on maps and street views getting a feel for things as much as possible from a distance. 2 spots at the top of our current list are Knoxville, TN and Greenville, SC.

So I've spent a lot of your time as you read about 2 strangers, to give you background on us so we can get opinions on how either city would work for us and what your experiences are with each or both, if possible. Thanks for any advice, experiences, comparisons, or other location suggestions to dig into. I have a work trip in August 2014 to Nashville, and we are going to spend an extra 2 days (can't afford more sadly) to drive to and through Knoxville and Greenville to get a super small snippet of each place. Would love the top few places to spend probably...3-4 hours in, for each city. Thanks kindly in advance for any help.

--
Grace and Peace,

Why you'll move away to Greenville/Knoxville rather than just S. Louisiana.

Small town, great weather (not that brutal), and job perspective look good.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by drfranklin

I lived in Chattanooga for a couple of years - only driven thru/stopped for day trips in Knoxville. I agree with several posters above.

Again, TN's pros are no state income tax and no ad-valorem taxes (I despise this SC tax - I see little evidence that my money is used for road maintenance here) - when I lived in Chattanooga I had no wheel tax - only certain, large municipalities in TN have them. Very high sales tax in TN - I was paying 9 3/4% on everything (including groceries). The state of SC does not charge tax on grocery items (unprepared). Further, Greenville is famous (infamous?) for having the lowest gas prices in the country.

The state of TN does not allow wine sales in any grocery store - this was an annoyance for me - wine prices in TN are much higher than SC. This is the reason that Costco chose to build its new Chattanooga location just beyond the GA border (Chattanooga sits on the TN/GA border).

Knoxville offers close proximity to Gatlinburg and Greenville offers close proximity to Asheville (nearly identical distances). I'd much rather live closer to Asheville than Gatlinburg. There was mention (on the Knoxville forum) that Knoxville's mountains are "taller" - um, what? I've got relatively easy access to the Blue Ridge Parkway, Balsam Overlook, Cold Mountain, Mt. Pisgah, etc all within a 90 minute drive. Mt Michell is a 2 hour drive. Caesar's Head (SC) state park (elevation 3,200 feet) is only 45 minutes north of downtown Greenville. Also, Greenville has easy access to the largest concentration of waterfalls in the East (all situated near the NC/SC border).

Greenville has one of the best downtown's in Southeast (very similar to Chattanooga's). I'd argue also that shopping in Greenville is slightly better than Knoxville. We have Total Wine, Macy's, REI, Cabela's, and will have Dave & Buster's. We both have Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Costco, Publix, Apple Store, Mast General, etc.

Honestly, both cities are quite similar - foothills locations/easy access to mountains, similar climate, very good retail, low cost of living, etc etc. One caveat: if you choose Knoxville, I hope you like bright orange because it's everywhere.

Knoxville does not have a Whole Foods, unless they have gotten one within the last few months. Knoxville has an Earthfare, which is based out of Asheville, but other than their flagship Asheville store, I've always thought Earthfare played a distant runner-up to WF.

For the most part, I've always thought that Knoxville was weak in retail. Even Roanoke, VA (maybe a third of the metro size of Knoxville) has a Macy's. Turkey Creek is nice, but that's really the high point of Knoxville's shopping.

Knoxville is a medium sized metro with a state flagship university, so there will always be something to do there. However, it is a CSA over a million, but it just doesn't feel like it. It doesn't seem to have the amenities a metro this size should have. It feels like a C+ player when Greenville is an A with less of a population.

[Mutiny77]

Greenville's and Knoxville's MSA populations are virtually the same size (850K) while Greenville's CSA population (1.4 million) is larger by 300K.

[drfranklin]

Thank you for the above clarifications - I thought Whole Foods was already open in Knoxville - and, according to recent developments, will not be open until Spring 2015 (at the new Papermill Plaza). Interestingly, REI is coming to Knoxville and will open Fall 2014 at the same shopping center with WF.

[creeksitter]

Marcolus, I just re-read your OP about specific recommendations to spend 3-4 hours.

In Knoxville you might want to visit Market Square which is a downtown plaza with lots of restaurants/shops. The other stop is the Outdoor Knoxville center off Neyland drive, but it is most easily accessed from Hill ave across from the women's basketball hall of fame.

They will have comprehensive information about all the hiking/biking trails. Ijams nature center is a good stop for a leg stretcher but you might find another hike that looks more interesting.

[creeksitter]

It also occured to me that coming from the west you might want to take the west hills exit and park at the YMCA on Winston road to check out the Jean Teague greenway. This will give you a sense of the suburban greenway system.

[marcolus]

Hobo7396, why would you say we would miss TX after awhile of living in TN?

[marcolus]

Creeksitter, thanks for the input and info.

For demographics.....utilizing a real estate appraisal tool that measures on distances, I wandered over to both Knoxville and Greenville on the map to get demographics to double check. Coming from San Antonio (which is 1.9 million for 25 mile radius and raised in Houston which is 4.9 million) either will be welcome relief of congestion/density.

A 20 mile radius for Knoxville comes in at 668,997 for 2013 and projected at 695,389 in 2018 for a 2013-2018 growth of 0.78%; a 25 mile radius comes in at 782,205 for 2013.

For Greenville, the 20 mile radius comes in at 660,610 for 2013 and projected at 700,632 in 2018 for a 2013-2018 growth of 1.18%; a 25 mile radius comes in at 802,619 for 2013.

We are leaning towards TN due to state income and ad valorem taxes and how much better they are in TN compared with SC. It would literally cost us about 10-15k a year more to live in SC than TN. And Texas has a 8.25% sales tax, so 9% is negligible.

Thanks all for all the help!