U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 05-28-2014, 02:40 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,153,593 times
Reputation: 1028

Advertisements

No and I think they'll reinforce the definition of whiteness.

1. Contrary to census statistics, most hispanics are actually mixed race
2. They tend to not identify as white even when they do look white because of our culture promoting racial division and lumping together linguistic and racial groups.

I would say most hispanic whites are accepted as white because guess what: they're white.

Last edited by bruhms; 05-28-2014 at 02:57 AM..

 
Old 05-28-2014, 03:31 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,152,116 times
Reputation: 3308
Op, in the future, I think the "whitest" that Hispanics will look will probably be along the lines of George P. Bush (the son of former Florida Governor Jeb Bush). Yes, he looks mostly european or white but you can definitely tell there is non-european in his phenotype. As a white person, I would not put him in the same category as myself or most of my family. Those characteristics will always exist in the descendents of Hispanics. With the way demographics are trending today the great grandchildren of modern day Hispanics are not going to be tall, rosy-skinned, blonde and blue-eyed.

Obviously, as is apparent in this thread, some white (that is, fully European descended) Americans will come to accept Hispanics like Jeb Bush as part of their own race, but there will be whites like myself and many others who don't. So I am sure the discussion we shared here over the past couple of days will continue to be repeated by others for centuries to come.
 
Old 05-28-2014, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Randolph, MA
508 posts, read 642,377 times
Reputation: 598
Quote:
Originally Posted by bruhms View Post
No and I think they'll reinforce the definition of whiteness.

1. Contrary to census statistics, most hispanics are actually mixed race
2. They tend to not identify as white even when they do look white because of our culture promoting racial division and lumping together linguistic and racial groups.

I would say most hispanic whites are accepted as white because guess what: they're white.
My point exactly! +1

Saying real White Hispanics aren't 'white' is essentially saying people like Ted Cruz, Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, and Louis CK aren't white. Only in America. Would anyone mistake any of the aforementioned folks as Mesitzo or Quadroon? I doubt it.
 
Old 05-28-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by branh0913 View Post
There is a difference between Caucasian and white. I think people need to understand the difference before bring North Africa into this conversation.
Caucasian has no real meaning in modern parlance, and was just used to mean European in the late 19th century as a synonym of white for idiosyncratic reasons (people at that time thought the Caucasus was where "white" people came from. Most Americans don't even know what it means - look at how after the Boston marathon some news stories reported the Tsarnaev brothers were "not caucasian."

The proper term in genetics is West Eurasian which is inclusive of basically all the populations in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and much of India and Central Asia.

"White" in contrast is a category which is a social construction. You can see this, for example, in how people from the Middle East who are from Muslim backgrounds are generally not seen as white, but those who are from Christian backgrounds (Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, John Abizaid, Kathy Najimy, Tony Shalhoub, or John H. Sununu, for example), are just seen as being white.

I don't know if Latinos will by and large self-identify as white in the U.S. 50 years from now. I do know they have high rates of intermarriage with white Americans, and tend to be monolingual English speakers by the third generation. Quite likely a high proportion of people by then will be 1/2 to 1/8 Latino (or Asian, for that matter), more or less look white, and be acculturated to mainstream American culture. It might not be thought of as "white" American culture any longer, but I'm still pretty near certain that black culture will exist and remain largely separate.
 
Old 05-28-2014, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassNative2891 View Post
My point exactly! +1

Saying real White Hispanics aren't 'white' is essentially saying people like Ted Cruz, Cameron Diaz, Charlie Sheen, and Louis CK aren't white. Only in America. Would anyone mistake any of the aforementioned folks as Mesitzo or Quadroon? I doubt it.
All of those people you mention are only half-Hispanic and are not 100% Hispanic. Therefore, they are not great examples of White Hispanics.
 
Old 05-28-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Caucasian has no real meaning in modern parlance, and was just used to mean European in the late 19th century as a synonym of white for idiosyncratic reasons (people at that time thought the Caucasus was where "white" people came from. Most Americans don't even know what it means - look at how after the Boston marathon some news stories reported the Tsarnaev brothers were "not caucasian."

The proper term in genetics is West Eurasian which is inclusive of basically all the populations in Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and much of India and Central Asia.

"White" in contrast is a category which is a social construction. You can see this, for example, in how people from the Middle East who are from Muslim backgrounds are generally not seen as white, but those who are from Christian backgrounds (Ralph Nader, Helen Thomas, John Abizaid, Kathy Najimy, Tony Shalhoub, or John H. Sununu, for example), are just seen as being white.

I don't know if Latinos will by and large self-identify as white in the U.S. 50 years from now. I do know they have high rates of intermarriage with white Americans, and tend to be monolingual English speakers by the third generation. Quite likely a high proportion of people by then will be 1/2 to 1/8 Latino (or Asian, for that matter), more or less look white, and be acculturated to mainstream American culture. It might not be thought of as "white" American culture any longer, but I'm still pretty near certain that black culture will exist and remain largely separate.
This post makes a lot of sense.
 
Old 05-28-2014, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Berkeley, S.F. Bay Area
374 posts, read 366,074 times
Reputation: 289
You're telling me Hispanics aren't white?

Nevermind, the better question is: you're telling me Hispanic is a race?
 
Old 05-29-2014, 12:02 AM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,467,331 times
Reputation: 5401
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalacticDragonfly View Post
You're telling me Hispanics aren't white?

Nevermind, the better question is: you're telling me Hispanic is a race?
When filling out official census sheets I would say no but in every day society in the United States, I would say yes because most are viewed and perceived as being distinct from Whites, Blacks, etc. Try going up a group of Puerto Ricans in NYC and start calling them "White" and see how many strange looks you'll get.
 
Old 05-29-2014, 12:26 AM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,152,116 times
Reputation: 3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalacticDragonfly View Post
You're telling me Hispanics aren't white?

Nevermind, the better question is: you're telling me Hispanic is a race?
Th e second sentence isn't a better question and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. No one here claimed Hispanic is a race. We all know that Hispanic is an ethnicity and Hispanics can be from many different races. The issue here is that most Hispanics are not white and will never be white yet they think through intermarriage they will be and most of them mark white on census forms when really they should be checking the "mixed" box.
 
Old 05-29-2014, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,419 posts, read 11,923,391 times
Reputation: 10539
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
Th e second sentence isn't a better question and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. No one here claimed Hispanic is a race. We all know that Hispanic is an ethnicity and Hispanics can be from many different races. The issue here is that most Hispanics are not white and will never be white yet they think through intermarriage they will be and most of them mark white on census forms when really they should be checking the "mixed" box.
The crucial question is how mixed is mixed enough? Clearly the average Mexican is Mestizo, and thus mixed race. But what if you're talking about a "white" Cuban who is genetically 90% white and 10% black? What if you're talking about someone like Louis CK who is 1/4th Mexican? In both cases they have some nonwhite ancestry, but not enough to change the basic impression of whiteness.

This becomes crucial because, as I said, in the next several generations a ton of Latinos will marry out. Currently around a quarter of Latinos marry interracially, but the number is much higher (36%) for those native-born in the U.S. Their half-Latino children will probably speak very little Spanish and be more likely still to marry generic "white" Americans. Someone half Latino/half white will probably be around 25% nonwhite genetically, if they have kids with a white American, they will be around 12.5% nonwhite.

As a conclusion, let's look at Fred Armisen. He is half Venuzuelan, 1/4th German, and 1/4th Japanese. Do you think most people look at him and see a nonwhite person?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top