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Old 06-27-2014, 05:57 PM
 
Location: USA
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All good points above.

Still, there is no denying that the North has a different accent than south of Pennsylvania. The DC region is different because the accent is influenced by the whole nation.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:03 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Besides, is anyone in their right mind really going to argue that a state with plantations and tens of thousands of slaves wasn't southern? And that that history has absolutely no bearing on the present day?
What relevance would that be, and how does it differ from the present-day situation of blacks in Philadelphia or New York City?

You posted data elsewhere showing that the DC area has the highest median income for African Americans in the nation.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:11 PM
 
Location: USA
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^ I think he's saying that past history still plays a role on the atmosphere of the area. You just can't totally dismiss it because the politics changed and liberals took fully over. All those old southern vibes didn't totally disappear, even if some of the natives don't see it. That's also part of what makes the region what it is.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:42 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
^ I think he's saying that past history still plays a role on the atmosphere of the area. You just can't totally dismiss it because the politics changed and liberals took fully over. All those old southern vibes didn't totally disappear, even if some of the natives don't see it. That's also part of what makes the region what it is.
It remains to be explained what that role is. Maryland today is very much dominated by the white collar jobs and economy of the Washington, D.C./Baltimore region. This applies to people of all backgrounds.

The tobacco plantation era was over quite a while ago. I have noticed, however, that less populated parts of the eastern shore have a more depressed economy. I guess that seems to hark back to the plantation era influence a little more. Maybe that is what Bajanyankee is referring to.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 06-27-2014 at 09:56 PM..
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Old 06-28-2014, 04:57 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
What relevance would that be, and how does it differ from the present-day situation of blacks in Philadelphia or New York City?
New York and Philadelphia, and the respective states those cities reside in, do not have the same degree of African American cultural influence and political power. They also don't have the same history of de jure segregation. And it's really this history of segregation that makes a big difference in the politics of the region. Washington, DC politics is much more Black/White than it is in New York and Philadelphia. The social fabric of the region, until very recently (with the arrival of Asians and Hispanics in the 80s and 90s), was pretty much Black/White.

Behind the shiny veneer of Manhattan, you still have a lot of identity politics at play in New York City. Historically, it hasn't been so much of a Black/White divide as it has been a Jewish/Italian/Puerto Rican/African American divide. And when I say "historically," I'm not talking about the 1840s or 1860s when America was full of newly arrived immigrants. I'm talking about Post-WWII politics that bears some resemblance to politics in the city today.

Philadelphia has always been more similar to NYC in this vein. Baltimore, not so much, though historically it was more ethnic than DC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
You posted data elsewhere showing that the DC area has the highest median income for African Americans in the nation.
What does that have to do with anything? Atlanta has the second highest income. Most of the cities African Americans find attractive ARE NOT LOCATED IN THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES. When was the last time anyone read an article in Jet Magazine about African Americans flocking to Philadelphia and Boston? It was probably around 1951.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 06-28-2014 at 05:32 AM..
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:11 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diff1 View Post
It does reach in the NE area of NC, Banjan Yankee you think that the black ppl in the DC area share more similarities with ATL than say Richmond and Chicago??
In a broad and general sense, yes, in terms of educational attainment, affluence and transience. For example, only 53% of African Americans in the Atlanta metro were born in the state of Georgia. Compare that to the 73% of African Americans in the Chicago metro who were born in Illinois or the 72% of African Americans in the Richmond metro born in Virginia. In Metro Atlanta, you come across a lot of Black people who say, "Oh, I grew up in Atlanta, but my family moved here from California when I was in the 7th Grade." A lot of the Black people weren't born there, and many who were born there are the children of transplants and immigrants (ATLiens) rather than born and raised Georgians.
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Old 06-28-2014, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It remains to be explained what that role is. Maryland today is very much dominated by the white collar jobs and economy of the Washington, D.C./Baltimore region. This applies to people of all backgrounds.

The tobacco plantation era was over quite a while ago. I have noticed, however, that less populated parts of the eastern shore have a more depressed economy. I guess that seems to hark back to the plantation era influence a little more. Maybe that is what Bajanyankee is referring to.
I simply don't see what that has to do with being southern or northern. Atlanta and Charlotte are not dominated by agriculture or blue collar jobs. If having a white collar economy precludes southerness, then there are very few cities in the South that are southern.

DC and Maryland are very much southern in historical terms (slavery all the way up through Jim Crow...are there any two institutions more defining of the South). But since the 1980s, mass immigration from Asia and Latin America has largely changed the cultural composition of the region. In fact, the area's growth is almost solely attributable to immigrants and African Americans. There has been a very small rise in the non-Hispanic White population since the 1970s.

And as pgm123 pointed out, southerners make up the largest portion of domestic migrants to the DC area. Even in the Maryland suburbs, people moving in from southern states outside of NOVA constitute the largest migratory group. In Northern Virginia, southerners make up 40% of all domestic migrants. So one of the most prevalent arguments on this board--that the DC area has become more "northern" thanks to the overwhelming numbers of New Yorkers and Bostonians--completely goes out of the window in light of the cold, hard data. I'm really not sure how people can continue making this argument.

My personal opinion is that the DC area has not become any more northern. It's definitely become less southern due to the transient nature of the population. Miami is similar in this regard (only 29% of non-Hispanic Whites in Miami were born in the state).
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Old 06-28-2014, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Prince George's County, Maryland
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Facebook style relationship status of the two Mid-Atlantic cities regarding North and South.

North: Exploring our options.....

South: It's complicated.......

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Old 06-29-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
New York and Philadelphia, and the respective states those cities reside in, do not have the same degree of African American cultural influence and political power. They also don't have the same history of de jure segregation. And it's really this history of segregation that makes a big difference in the politics of the region. Washington, DC politics is much more Black/White than it is in New York and Philadelphia. The social fabric of the region, until very recently (with the arrival of Asians and Hispanics in the 80s and 90s), was pretty much Black/White.
If you do even a little traveling in America, you will see that black/white politics and culture (and the usual stark differences) are thoroughly a staple of American society whether north or south. It is not correlated necessarily or directly with the extent of slave history or more recent segregration in the region.

It is obvious to anyone who visits the boroughs of New York City, for example. Harlem is perhaps the most famous black neighborhood in America and hip hop originated in New York City. Over time, ethnic whites become absorbed into mainstream whites and ethnic blacks into mainstream blacks.

I would say that black cultural influence is much stronger in New York City than it is in Washington, DC. There are areas in Washington, DC and lots of suburbs in Maryland where the black population is very small. Someone who grows up in those places will know very little about the local black culture in the DC area (except maybe through tv and things like that).
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:46 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,080,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
If you do even a little traveling in America, you will see that black/white politics and culture (and the usual stark differences) are thoroughly a staple of American society whether north or south. It is not correlated necessarily or directly with the extent of slave history or more recent segregration in the region.

It is obvious to anyone who visits the boroughs of New York City, for example. Harlem is perhaps the most famous black neighborhood in America and hip hop originated in New York City. Over time, ethnic whites become absorbed into mainstream whites and ethnic blacks into mainstream blacks.
BajanYankee didn't see New York City or Philadelphia didn't have this dynamic but the degree was less. And the dynamic is not just black and white but also between various ethnic groups (Puerto Ricans for example, and one time when identities were stronger between different ethnic white groups). DC doesn't have that.

Quote:
I would say that black cultural influence is much stronger in New York City than it is in Washington, DC. There are areas in Washington, DC and lots of suburbs in Maryland where the black population is very small. Someone who grows up in those places will know very little about the local black culture in the DC area (except maybe through tv and things like that).
There are plenty of areas in New York City and its suburbs where the black population is very small. More so than DC. DC was majority black (not sure if it still is) for many decades. Blacks were never anywhere near a majority in NYC
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