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Old 06-26-2014, 07:10 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC
724 posts, read 1,400,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
Society has become far more casual in the past 14 years. In 2000, nearly everyone in my church (with a congregation of close to 1,000 people) wore suits or dresses. Fourteen years later, in the same church, almost no one does. In 2000, everyone at my office wore suits or dresses to work. Fourteen years later, in the same office, almost no one does. In 2000, I put on a suit 6 days a week (Saturday was my casual day). Now, I may put one on once or twice in an entire year.
That's a big difference. Especially here, life has become much more casual. It is still like that somewhat in major cities like New York, Washington and Chicago, with all the major companies, but in a place like Charleston it is mainly casual. African-Americans still dress up to go to church with their hats, but not as many whites.

Mainly older people dress up for church. Another difference is how accessible the Internet has become. I remember in 2000 only certain parts of the Charleston area had high-speed Internet. Schools were using outdated 90s equipment. Now, almost any device has Internet access.

Gasoline is another big difference. I remember in 2000/2001 when gas was under a buck a gallon and you could fill a tank with $20-$25. Now it is at least three times that or more.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:52 PM
 
4,668 posts, read 6,126,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Of course, neither Elvis Presley nor Robert Plant told a woman to "deep-throat [their] nine-inch" in any of their songs, or boast about passing women around among their crew, like the rappers did in the song that I mentioned. There's a difference between provocative and perverted.

Was Alice Cooper music? Ozzy? What about Marilyn Manson?

My grandma might have thought Robert Plant talking about "squeeze my lemon until the juice runs down my leg" was perverted..I would have disagreed tho'.

Then again who am I to say where the line between provocative and perverted is?
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Old 06-26-2014, 08:26 PM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,807,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dport7674 View Post
Was Alice Cooper music? Ozzy? What about Marilyn Manson?

My grandma might have thought Robert Plant talking about "squeeze my lemon until the juice runs down my leg" was perverted..I would have disagreed tho'.

Then again who am I to say where the line between provocative and perverted is?
No doubt you have a good point, after all, even waltzes when they became popular in the 1800s were thought of scandalous, as it was one of the first dances where men and women danced close.

Yes, no question Alice Cooper and Ozzy were shocking in the 70s, as Marilyn Manson was in the 90s, although for different reasons, not so much for sex, but more for the association with things Satanic, etc.

I still think though, there was a sort of "shock value for the sake of shock value" that peaked around the time of the turn of the millennium/early 2000s, that has since become a little passe.
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Old 06-27-2014, 06:00 AM
 
1,586 posts, read 1,547,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
So now it's OK to push conservative Christians around? I'm hardly a devout Christian, and I don't necessarily oppose gay marriage either, but two wrongs don't make a right.
Ah, and now you've hit upon one of the major fallacies of the current cultural debate. The religious right today makes a big fuss about how they're being pushed around. But if you really examine what that "pushing around" constitutes, it means they're not being allowed to push other people around. Stopping a group from persecuting another group does not constitute the first group being persecuted.

A previous post implored liberals to consider what would happen if homosexuality was suddenly illegal. This, the post said, is how Christian conservatives currently feel as same-sex marriage is being legal across the country. And I do understand that, but I also think there's a huge difference -- in the former case, one group is losing its rights; in the second case, that group is gaining them. The religious right is ultimately unaffected by same-sex marriage, except for the fact that they lose the right to dictate what other people do, a right they never really had.

This reminds me: There was a moment maybe five or so years ago when I knew gay people had won. It wasn't a Supreme Court decision or a state legalizing anything. It was something I overheard my dad say at a family gathering. My dad is a product of his time, a bit of an independent thinker, historically a liberal who can cross the aisle to vote for Republicans, but someone who ultimately is uncomfortable with changing social mores. "I used to be against gay marriage," I heard him tell another relative of his generation, "but now I just don't care." That's why they've won. It's not getting young people to enthusiastically support them. It's getting people like my dad to stop caring.
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Old 06-27-2014, 07:13 AM
 
4,818 posts, read 5,017,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boulevardofdef View Post
Ah, and now you've hit upon one of the major fallacies of the current cultural debate. The religious right today makes a big fuss about how they're being pushed around. But if you really examine what that "pushing around" constitutes, it means they're not being allowed to push other people around. Stopping a group from persecuting another group does not constitute the first group being persecuted.

A previous post implored liberals to consider what would happen if homosexuality was suddenly illegal. This, the post said, is how Christian conservatives currently feel as same-sex marriage is being legal across the country. And I do understand that, but I also think there's a huge difference -- in the former case, one group is losing its rights; in the second case, that group is gaining them. The religious right is ultimately unaffected by same-sex marriage, except for the fact that they lose the right to dictate what other people do, a right they never really had.

This reminds me: There was a moment maybe five or so years ago when I knew gay people had won. It wasn't a Supreme Court decision or a state legalizing anything. It was something I overheard my dad say at a family gathering. My dad is a product of his time, a bit of an independent thinker, historically a liberal who can cross the aisle to vote for Republicans, but someone who ultimately is uncomfortable with changing social mores. "I used to be against gay marriage," I heard him tell another relative of his generation, "but now I just don't care." That's why they've won. It's not getting young people to enthusiastically support them. It's getting people like my dad to stop caring.
People like your dad stopped "caring" about gay people, or "hating" on a gay people because of 50 years of gay people slowly coming out of the closet, being themselves and showing the world that they too having loving relationships (with the same sex), are responsible adults, raise children, defend our country, etc. etc. and always have, since the beginnings of society.

It's taken 50 years of debunking erroneous belief systems that did nothing but oppress a group of people for loving the same sex, and using religion to back them up.

Since the Supreme Court decision I've noticed a fundamental shift in the overall acceptance that didn't quite exist before.

If you compare black people's oppression to gay people's oppression, you can see that society had changed enough by the time of Lincoln's assassination to accept that slavery was wrong and blacks should be free, but it took another 100 years for society to accept that prejudiced, bigotry, and racism was wrong as well.

For the last 150 years Gay people have been dealing with homophobia, and in the first 100 years of those 150 it's been mostly about Gay people learning to accept themselves; it's been about gays dealing with their own homophobia and learning to stop hating themselves for what society said was wrong.

In the last 50 years leading up to the Supreme Count decision it's been about society dealing with it's homophobia. By loving and accepting Gay relationships and Gay families, society has been dealing with their homophobia without necessarily knowing that's what they have been doing.

Homophobia is an irrational fear and hatred of Homosexuality and of the people who are homosexual. By seeing gay loving relationships and families and being a part of them as in being a loving and accepting mother of a gay man has broken the oppression of homophobia.

The whole Gay Civil Rights issue of the last 50 years has been about defeating homophobia and the Supreme Count decision was and is as powerful a legal act as the Civil Rights laws of the 1960's.

No doubt, after the Civil Rights laws of the 1960's, there was a fundamental shift in people's acceptance, especially young people's acceptance of black people and an understanding of prejudice, bigotry, and racism. Today, society, especially young people have an understanding of what homophobia is, and their is an acceptance of Gay families like never before.
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Old 06-27-2014, 09:28 AM
 
5,837 posts, read 10,807,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimérique View Post
People like your dad stopped "caring" about gay people, or "hating" on a gay people because of 50 years of gay people slowly coming out of the closet, being themselves and showing the world that they too having loving relationships (with the same sex), are responsible adults, raise children, defend our country, etc. etc. and always have, since the beginnings of society.

It's taken 50 years of debunking erroneous belief systems that did nothing but oppress a group of people for loving the same sex, and using religion to back them up.

Since the Supreme Court decision I've noticed a fundamental shift in the overall acceptance that didn't quite exist before.

If you compare black people's oppression to gay people's oppression, you can see that society had changed enough by the time of Lincoln's assassination to accept that slavery was wrong and blacks should be free, but it took another 100 years for society to accept that prejudiced, bigotry, and racism was wrong as well.

For the last 150 years Gay people have been dealing with homophobia, and in the first 100 years of those 150 it's been mostly about Gay people learning to accept themselves; it's been about gays dealing with their own homophobia and learning to stop hating themselves for what society said was wrong.

In the last 50 years leading up to the Supreme Count decision it's been about society dealing with it's homophobia. By loving and accepting Gay relationships and Gay families, society has been dealing with their homophobia without necessarily knowing that's what they have been doing.

Homophobia is an irrational fear and hatred of Homosexuality and of the people who are homosexual. By seeing gay loving relationships and families and being a part of them as in being a loving and accepting mother of a gay man has broken the oppression of homophobia.

The whole Gay Civil Rights issue of the last 50 years has been about defeating homophobia and the Supreme Count decision was and is as powerful a legal act as the Civil Rights laws of the 1960's.

No doubt, after the Civil Rights laws of the 1960's, there was a fundamental shift in people's acceptance, especially young people's acceptance of black people and an understanding of prejudice, bigotry, and racism. Today, society, especially young people have an understanding of what homophobia is, and their is an acceptance of Gay families like never before.
Thats an interesting take and analysis.

Homophobia may very well have been perpetuated by the simple fact that no one knew anyone who was openly gay, any homosexual activity was specifically clandestine which is always going to be looked upon with suspicion, with many exaggerated claims and falsehoods about their lifestyles.

It may have been that as gays slowly came out, people started seeing that "Oh, their just regular people like us, they can even be in monogamous, caring relationships, which only helped the situation, because then society slowly took note, little by little that, yes they really are just like us, and not some secret society where they have to do things undercover, and lie to their loved ones about where they're going off to.

So a little coming out and a little acceptance, was ultimately going to lead to more acceptance because society saw that there was nothing to be afraid of, they are not all an orgy partaking, walking STD, but real human beings no different from anyone else.
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:59 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
4,000 posts, read 3,480,333 times
Reputation: 2482
There is a mass shooting every week now literally in the USA. Where as in 2000 it was maybe every 4 or 5 months.
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Old 06-28-2014, 09:03 AM
 
Location: M I N N E S O T A
14,800 posts, read 17,750,871 times
Reputation: 9029
Baby boomers have become extremely paranoid, the rest of us live much better lives.
More healthy, less crime, more technology.
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Old 06-28-2014, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Calera, AL
1,170 posts, read 1,451,781 times
Reputation: 1574
The kids are definitely different. They're undisciplined and spoiled, and rely too much on the "bully" card when being teased. There was a time, not all that long ago, that when fights/bullying occurred, it only involved the students involved, a teacher, and only escalated to the parents and/or principal when necessary. They need to learn how to stand up for themselves because if they think other kids are cruel, they'll be in for a much ruder awakening because the real world shows far less mercy.

Also, a lot of kids' education nowadays comes from the internet. Some of it is because they do need to be increasingly tech-savvy in an ever-increasingly high tech world, but it's also because the quality of education probably isn't as good as it once was, so they're using the Internet more and more to learn (mostly on their own, rather than for an actual research assignment).
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Old 06-28-2014, 08:20 PM
 
4,818 posts, read 5,017,497 times
Reputation: 2277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
Thats an interesting take and analysis.

Homophobia may very well have been perpetuated by the simple fact that no one knew anyone who was openly gay, any homosexual activity was specifically clandestine which is always going to be looked upon with suspicion, with many exaggerated claims and falsehoods about their lifestyles.

It may have been that as gays slowly came out, people started seeing that "Oh, their just regular people like us, they can even be in monogamous, caring relationships, which only helped the situation, because then society slowly took note, little by little that, yes they really are just like us, and not some secret society where they have to do things undercover, and lie to their loved ones about where they're going off to.

So a little coming out and a little acceptance, was ultimately going to lead to more acceptance because society saw that there was nothing to be afraid of, they are not all an orgy partaking, walking STD, but real human beings no different from anyone else.
Traditionally and to this day, the most homophobic of the social-demographic groups have been young men 15-30 year olds, so they are kind of like a barometer of how far we have come as a society in terms of our acceptance and comfort lever regarding Gay Men.

In the US, in the last 5 years, there has been a noticeable increase in the comfort level, this social-demographic group seems very less homophobic.

For example, my partner and I spent a week with a bunch (7) of straight guys all under 23 years old. They were friends of my nephew. There was not one bit of homophobia from them, and a natural acceptance as if we were a straight couple. They talked of their gay friends in very respectful terms, and their gay friends boyfriends and partners in respectful and admirable terms.

Just 10 years back, likely, half of a similar group of young guys would have been homophobic to some extent. 15 years back, 3/4 of them would have been homophobic to some extend, and all of these guys are very straight and they all grew up together since they were toddlers.
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