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Old 10-26-2014, 05:46 PM
 
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Walt Disney certainly looked it in that picture.
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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It's worth mentioning that the "Old Spanish" community found in northern New Mexico (and in extreme southern Colorado) isn't really Spanish, although it's certainly not Mexican. There has been intermarriage with Pueblo and other Indians over the centuries - not as much as Mexico, but it's there. More crucially, modern study has shown a significant proportion (perhaps half) of the Old Spanish community are actually the descendants of Sephardic Jews who converted to Catholicism during the Inquisition. In many cases, Jewish traditions remained passed down even though the families stop self-identifying as Jews (wearing a yarmulke, having two sets of dishes, having a seder, etc).
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:00 PM
 
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I remember when I was in College I met this white girl from upstate new york.... her name was Tracy Aristizabal (she was an upstate newyorker of basque heritage)

I find that spaniards-americans are more like white people than like the mexican-minority in socio economic terms in the US
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
I remember when I was in College I met this white girl from upstate new york.... her name was Tracy Aristizabal (she was an upstate newyorker of basque heritage)

I find that spaniards-americans are more like white people than like the mexican-minority in socio economic terms in the US
Well I don't find that surprising considering that if their ethnic heritage is European, they'd fit in more with other Europeans than Mestizos. It's not like Spaniards look Mestizo or anything. They can pass for Italian or any other Mediterranean, which in the Eastern seaboard is very common. It also must be quite common in the Southwest, where seeing a Spaniard contrasted with an Amerindian really shows the stark difference between the two. Even between Spaniards and Mestizos there is a marked difference even if complexion remains the same, because Mestizos and Amerindians can retain a more "Asiatic" look (high cheekbones, flatter faces, less body hair) and Spaniards look like well, any average Southern European who doesn't have any of those features.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:08 PM
 
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Actually, Snopes debunked the notion that Walt Disney was a Spaniard.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:30 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It's worth mentioning that the "Old Spanish" community found in northern New Mexico (and in extreme southern Colorado) isn't really Spanish, although it's certainly not Mexican. There has been intermarriage with Pueblo and other Indians over the centuries - not as much as Mexico, but it's there. More crucially, modern study has shown a significant proportion (perhaps half) of the Old Spanish community are actually the descendants of Sephardic Jews who converted to Catholicism during the Inquisition. In many cases, Jewish traditions remained passed down even though the families stop self-identifying as Jews (wearing a yarmulke, having two sets of dishes, having a seder, etc).
While I won't argue that the Spanish settlers intermarried with local Pueblo Indians, the majority of New Mexicans who identify primarily as 'Spanish' would blend in on the streets of Spanish cities. Most of these folks come from mountain villages and Santa Fe wheras valley villages and cities like Espanola and Bernalillo have more evidence of intermarriage. But when you see a 'Spanish' New Mexican standing next to a Kewa (Pueblo Indian) there is no mistaking who is the European even if he does have a few indigenous ancestors.

The maintenence of 'Spanish' self-identification in New Mexico is also as much to enforce a perception of distance from Mexican culture as it is a connection to Spanish culture in my opinion.

Now, it should also be noted that there are a lot of Hispanicised Indians in New Mexico as well who speak (or spoke) Spanish and have Spanish names, but their day-to-day culture is still fundamentally indigenous with conflation of indigenous imagery with Catholic saints fro example, unlike the Spanish colonial population.

These folks are most evident on the edges of the population center along the Rio Grande valley. The Spanish army and missionaries used these people as a 'buffer' of friendly, Hispanicised natives against raiding 'uncivilized' tribes such as the Comanche to the east of the Spanish colony and Apaches to the west. While you might call these folks Hispanic, they are not Spanish. Sadly, a strict ethnic caste system was (and still is) in effect in New Mexico and a lot of people with mostly indigenous blood claim Spanish ancestry, usually those who are entirely Hispanic and also entirely disconnected from Pueblo culture.

Finally, even though there is Spanish colonial culture here, to this day, obviously the culture was influenced by its isolated, frontier experience. Food in particular is very influenced by indigenous ingredients such as corn, chile peppers, squash, etc.All in all New Mexico's 'Spanish' heritage is a much more complex subject than simply defining it as a Spanish enclave in the United States. Their long history of isolation, their proximity to indigenous culture, decades of Anglo-Americanization, and recently the influx of Mexicans have all had their impact.
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Old 10-27-2014, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
While I won't argue that the Spanish settlers intermarried with local Pueblo Indians, the majority of New Mexicans who identify primarily as 'Spanish' would blend in on the streets of Spanish cities. Most of these folks come from mountain villages and Santa Fe wheras valley villages and cities like Espanola and Bernalillo have more evidence of intermarriage. But when you see a 'Spanish' New Mexican standing next to a Kewa (Pueblo Indian) there is no mistaking who is the European even if he does have a few indigenous ancestors.

The maintenence of 'Spanish' self-identification in New Mexico is also as much to enforce a perception of distance from Mexican culture as it is a connection to Spanish culture in my opinion.

Now, it should also be noted that there are a lot of Hispanicised Indians in New Mexico as well who speak (or spoke) Spanish and have Spanish names, but their day-to-day culture is still fundamentally indigenous with conflation of indigenous imagery with Catholic saints fro example, unlike the Spanish colonial population.

These folks are most evident on the edges of the population center along the Rio Grande valley. The Spanish army and missionaries used these people as a 'buffer' of friendly, Hispanicised natives against raiding 'uncivilized' tribes such as the Comanche to the east of the Spanish colony and Apaches to the west. While you might call these folks Hispanic, they are not Spanish. Sadly, a strict ethnic caste system was (and still is) in effect in New Mexico and a lot of people with mostly indigenous blood claim Spanish ancestry, usually those who are entirely Hispanic and also entirely disconnected from Pueblo culture.

Finally, even though there is Spanish colonial culture here, to this day, obviously the culture was influenced by its isolated, frontier experience. Food in particular is very influenced by indigenous ingredients such as corn, chile peppers, squash, etc.All in all New Mexico's 'Spanish' heritage is a much more complex subject than simply defining it as a Spanish enclave in the United States. Their long history of isolation, their proximity to indigenous culture, decades of Anglo-Americanization, and recently the influx of Mexicans have all had their impact.
All accurate. And just as it's a complex matter in New Mexico, it's a complex matter in Spain. There are many Spaniards who are descendants of Visigoths (German tribes) and look no different from folks you'd find in Hamburg or Vienna. There are descendants of Etruscans. There are many descendants of Jews... in short, ethnicity is almost always more complex than people want to present it.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I went to a Spanish restaurant in Valpo, IN last night. Great food, btw. Anyway, I got to wondering something. Why is it that Spaniards don't have a significant cultural presence in the US?

Now, I know that many Latin Americans have Spaniard descent but thanks to the modern classification lumping all "Hispanics" together, few of them identify as having this culture and instead put themselves in a general "Latino" category. I already made a thread about that and don't wish to discuss it here.

But when it comes to people with actual Spaniard culture and customs, are there any well-known communities in the US? I've read of a Basque (who are technically not Spaniards) community in Boise, Idaho. Never been there, though. The Wikipedia page on Spanish-Americans places most of them as having a strong presence in the Southwest. Again, though, I am sure that in this day and age few identify as Spaniards and probably identify as Tejanos or Mexican-Americans. Or maybe I'm totally off about that.

Have you seen any Spanish communities in the US that are proud of their heritage in Spain and celebrate it?
Spanish immigrants and immigration were numerous and in abundance in/to the USA. Most of what is now the USA was settled and controlled by Spaniards all the way up until the late 1800s.

Sephardi Jews, Isleños, Little Spain are great examples of the massive wave of Spanish descended immigrants to the USA.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Many Canarian Spaniards went to Louisiana, became known as Islenos.
Isleños are also considered as Creoles as well!
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:38 PM
 
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Spanish descendants can be found in all 50 states of the USA! Plenty of Spanish came to the USA. Spaniards were the first successful European colonial power in what is now the USA and have had a long cultural presence and impact on the USA.
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