U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-14-2014, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,350 posts, read 7,446,590 times
Reputation: 6786

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That's a big part of it, yes. IMO people who weren't raised Catholic/Christian, or any religion at all, and especially whose family doesn't believe in God, should not celebrate religious holidays like Christmas. It would be like me celebrating Hannukah. Why would I? I'm not Jewish. Imagine a non-Muslim (like me) fasting for Ramadan. To me, that's equal to a non-Christian celebrating Christmas. One reason non-Christians celebrate Christmas is probably because of the commercialization of it, and yes, I think it's sad and kind of unfair. Christmas is celebrated for a reason, and no it is not gifts, which is usually why nonreligious people celebrate it. Decorating the house is cute and fun, I get it, so is exchanging presents, but for one to say they are celebrating Christmas when they do just that is ridiculous. It's just another excuse to buy/give gifts in the name of a religion (which is why it is commercialized - money), a holiday that the religious take seriously for an important reason. When my friend told me she celebrates though her family is not Christian or religious at all, I was kind of floored. Same with Easter, and still getting Easter gifts at 20 years old. For her parents to not even tell her Christmas is religious, at all in her whole life, is disrespectful IMO. If you want to celebrate it anyway no one can stop you, you have that right, but I think you should at least be respectful to the religion and explain to your children it is a religious holiday celebrated for a specific reason that you are celebrating for other reasons (presents and fun decorations and food and family). Right or wrong, it really did bug me and that was my instinctual response to hearing it. I can't help it. I didn't tell her how wrong I think it is, I didn't want to fight and it's just not worth it anyway, but I really do think it's wrong. Sorry. Sadly, though, since Christmas has become so unreligious and made all about the buying of gifts, I can see why anyone would celebrate it. I just don't agree with it.

In NJ, I don't know if we're "godless." This state is largely made up of, if people are religious, Roman Catholics and Jews. There is one Catholic Church in my town, one Jewish temple, and a couple of other Protestant churches (I think one is Episcopalian, one is Lutheran). By far the most popular is the Roman Catholic church, with a pretty impressive following and an attached Catholic school kids from all over the county go to.
I agree with what you are saying about Christmas, because I am also Christian and consider Christmas to be about celebrating the birth of Jesus. However, the more secular people become and the more they want to ignore God, the more Christmas is going to be about Santa Claus, shopping, and parties. It's been really obvious in recent years as you read about some atheist here or there getting offended by a Nativity scene and demanding that it be removed from a public place, even though no one else is offended by it and it has been displayed there for decades without any problems.

It really saddens me to go the mall in December and see how rude and selfish people act, all in the name of getting gifts for people to celebrate a holiday that used to be about celebrating the birth of Christ, Someone who preached kindness, selflessness, and love for others.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-14-2014, 01:15 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,354 posts, read 19,626,396 times
Reputation: 13151
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That's a big part of it, yes. IMO people who weren't raised Catholic/Christian, or any religion at all, and especially whose family doesn't believe in God, should not celebrate religious holidays like Christmas. It would be like me celebrating Hannukah. Why would I? I'm not Jewish. Imagine a non-Muslim (like me) fasting for Ramadan.
For the record, I don't believe in any religion, deity, Jesus or anything like that. It's not important for me to believe in any of these things or to discourage others from believing in them. However, I enjoy the festivities and spirit during the holiday season, including Christmas. I like exchanging gifts and things like that.

I don't understand why someone couldn't enjoy a religious holiday just because they don't personally believe in the supernatural aspects of it. I didn't grow up with that kind of mentality.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 03:38 PM
 
12,701 posts, read 10,555,677 times
Reputation: 17634
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
For the record, I don't believe in any religion, deity, Jesus or anything like that. It's not important for me to believe in any of these things or to discourage others from believing in them. However, I enjoy the festivities and spirit during the holiday season, including Christmas. I like exchanging gifts and things like that.

I don't understand why someone couldn't enjoy a religious holiday just because they don't personally believe in the supernatural aspects of it. I didn't grow up with that kind of mentality.
I grew up spending Christmas Eve/Day at Church, before we did anything else, usually prior to opening presents. It was deemed more important than the gifts because there is a reason behind Christmas other than gifts, catchy songs, and decorations. Christmas Eve mass occurred before dinner and presents with family, and Christmas morning mass occurred before breakfast, opening gifts from Santa, and spending the day with family. The only thing that changed per year was which mass we chose, day or night.

This is the difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,329,661 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest Gent View Post
Southern California. But I'm sure there are plenty of Christians there, just a general disrespect for Christianity in that region.
I lived in Orange County for many years and there were plenty of Bible beaters there Crystal Cathedral? Benny Hinn? Trinity Broadcasting?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,329,661 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That's a big part of it, yes. IMO people who weren't raised Catholic/Christian, or any religion at all, and especially whose family doesn't believe in God, should not celebrate religious holidays like Christmas. It would be like me celebrating Hannukah. Why would I? I'm not Jewish. Imagine a non-Muslim (like me) fasting for Ramadan. To me, that's equal to a non-Christian celebrating Christmas. One reason non-Christians celebrate Christmas is probably because of the commercialization of it, and yes, I think it's sad and kind of unfair. Christmas is celebrated for a reason, and no it is not gifts, which is usually why nonreligious people celebrate it. Decorating the house is cute and fun, I get it, so is exchanging presents, but for one to say they are celebrating Christmas when they do just that is ridiculous. It's just another excuse to buy/give gifts in the name of a religion (which is why it is commercialized - money), a holiday that the religious take seriously for an important reason. When my friend told me she celebrates though her family is not Christian or religious at all, I was kind of floored. Same with Easter, and still getting Easter gifts at 20 years old. For her parents to not even tell her Christmas is religious, at all in her whole life, is disrespectful IMO. If you want to celebrate it anyway no one can stop you, you have that right, but I think you should at least be respectful to the religion and explain to your children it is a religious holiday celebrated for a specific reason that you are celebrating for other reasons (presents and fun decorations and food and family). Right or wrong, it really did bug me and that was my instinctual response to hearing it. I can't help it. I didn't tell her how wrong I think it is, I didn't want to fight and it's just not worth it anyway, but I really do think it's wrong. Sorry. Sadly, though, since Christmas has become so unreligious and made all about the buying of gifts, I can see why anyone would celebrate it. I just don't agree with it.

In NJ, I don't know if we're "godless." This state is largely made up of, if people are religious, Roman Catholics and Jews. There is one Catholic Church in my town, one Jewish temple, and a couple of other Protestant churches (I think one is Episcopalian, one is Lutheran). By far the most popular is the Roman Catholic church, with a pretty impressive following and an attached Catholic school kids from all over the county go to.
Well, first of all, Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th and he didn't die on Easter (or maybe I should say there's a 1/365 chance he was). These holidays were "hijacked" from the Pagans in an effort to convert people to Christianity. Christmas trees, yule logs, wreathes, holly, candles on the darkest days of the year... Pagan, Pagan, Pagan, Pagan! All the "bring in something evergreen and light candles" rituals were about celebrating the Winter Solstace. Easter eggs are about fertility, new life coming back around the Vernal Equinox. So Christmas and Easter being Christian holidays is practically a joke.

And second, people can do whatever they want. I really don't see Christmas as a religious holiday. Mostly, it's evolved to a fun tradition, and it's fun to put up all the lights when it's dark so early that time of year. Although it's almost becoming more of a PITA with all our decorations, buying presents, etc. But fun, since we have little kids who still belive in Santa
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 08:18 PM
 
12,701 posts, read 10,555,677 times
Reputation: 17634
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
Well, first of all, Jesus wasn't born on Dec. 25th and he didn't die on Easter (or maybe I should say there's a 1/365 chance he was). These holidays were "hijacked" from the Pagans in an effort to convert people to Christianity. Christmas trees, yule logs, wreathes, holly, candles on the darkest days of the year... Pagan, Pagan, Pagan, Pagan! All the "bring in something evergreen and light candles" rituals were about celebrating the Winter Solstace. Easter eggs are about fertility, new life coming back around the Vernal Equinox. So Christmas and Easter being Christian holidays is practically a joke.

And second, people can do whatever they want. I really don't see Christmas as a religious holiday. Mostly, it's evolved to a fun tradition, and it's fun to put up all the lights when it's dark so early that time of year. Although it's almost becoming more of a PITA with all our decorations, buying presents, etc. But fun, since we have little kids who still belive in Santa
It is not a joke. These have become Christian holidays, regardless of what they used to be or real dates that Jesus was born/rose from the dead. These are official holidays and dates as recognized by the Vatican and every practicing Roman Catholic. The fact that American capitalism has jumped onto the presents bandwagon for both Christmas and Easter but especially Christmas to fuel buying and advertising campaigns doesn't make it any less of a Christian holiday, it simply means others who do not practice Christianity have an excuse to have access to a Christian holiday. And this is only in more recent years. When my parents and grandparents were kids, they got both fewer, less expensive and extravagant presents and it was a time when not everyone and their mother celebrated Christmas - practicing Christians celebrated Christmas then. It has changed and that is fine but I don't have to like it.

Of course people can do what they want. You can't stop it, and that's fine with me. I simply think it's wrong.

Maybe you don't see Christmas as a religious holiday, and I grudgingly admit I can't blame you considering its commercialization, but it is. It is the day Christians attend mass to celebrate the birth of Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,427 posts, read 17,012,806 times
Reputation: 9516
Quote:
Originally Posted by snj90 View Post

"Your" holidays are also not completely yours. Keep in mind the well-known pagan origins of Christmas and Easter. These were never really Christian in origin but adopted by the Christian religion and infused with some of its elements. I do think these holidays will continue to thrive even in a Postchristian society as tradition is important to people and many of the themes are not strictly religious in nature. The holidays mark special parts of the years, and when traditions dictate conviviality and celebration, there is no reason to abandon them. Now, all that said, if you are referring to the commercialization of Christmas more than anything else, then I fully agree. That is lamentable in so many ways.
What is this "post-Christian society" of which you speak? Christianity has grown and thrived for 2,000-plus years, and continues to do so at a remarkable rate, especially in developing countries. The fastest-growing countries for Christianity are the Middle East, Southeast Asia and China -- where the internet has opened up access to the Bible.

Christianity is not going anywhere, despite what what many people wish or think.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,761,705 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
Christianity is not going anywhere, despite what what many people wish or think.
No, it's just changing it's demographics. In many developing regions of the world, like those you listed, it is growing in leaps and bounds... but in many Western cultures, especially Western Europe, it's fading. This has nothing to do with anybody's wishes, hopes, or agendas. That's just how it's playing out. Here in the states, many of the large urban centers on the West coast and in the Northeast are seeing a decline. I seriously doubt Christianity will ever disappear completely in these areas, but it is losing some adherents. As I said earlier, I think a lot of it is generational.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-14-2014, 11:18 PM
 
2,774 posts, read 2,504,917 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
What is this "post-Christian society" of which you speak? Christianity has grown and thrived for 2,000-plus years, and continues to do so at a remarkable rate, especially in developing countries. The fastest-growing countries for Christianity are the Middle East, Southeast Asia and China -- where the internet has opened up access to the Bible.

Christianity is not going anywhere, despite what what many people wish or think.
I agree, Christianity is here to stay whether people like it or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-15-2014, 06:14 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,371 posts, read 7,055,864 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
What is this "post-Christian society" of which you speak? Christianity has grown and thrived for 2,000-plus years, and continues to do so at a remarkable rate, especially in developing countries. The fastest-growing countries for Christianity are the Middle East, Southeast Asia and China -- where the internet has opened up access to the Bible.

Christianity is not going anywhere, despite what what many people wish or think.
Certain parts of Europe are a good example, specifically Northern Europe. Nominally Christian, but most people (i.e., >50% of the population) no longer believe in God. Nevertheless, certain traditions and holidays associated with Christianity persist and retain their cultural importance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top