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Old 04-02-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: East of the Sun, West of the Moon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
the only thing I can think of is "yous". The only ethnic group I've heard refer to a group of people as "yous" is the Italian-Americans. Whether that's due to their conjugation/sentence structure (doubt it based on the Italian plural forms) or a simplification of the English language (adding an -s to make anything plural), I'm not sure.

Growing up in NYC around a lot of Italian-Americans, I also associated yous(e) with the local New York dialect, especially Italians, but also Irish-Americans and Irish born, to wit:

Yous(e) as a plural is found mainly in (Northern) England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, northern Nova Scotia, parts of Ontario in Canada and parts of the northeastern United States (especially areas like Boston where there was historically Irish immigration) and in Mexican-American communities in the southwest. It also occurs in Scouse. [Liverpool area which has always been a center of Irish immigrants in England]

Yous(e) as a singular is found in Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Cincinnati [1] and scattered throughout working class Italian-American communities in the Rust Belt.

Source of italicised text: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yous

Based on this, I would say with a fair bit of confidence that yous(e) is a feature of Irish English that Italian-Americans picked up from Irish immigrants in northeastern cities.


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Old 04-03-2019, 07:29 AM
 
6,960 posts, read 14,091,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Growing up in NYC around a lot of Italian-Americans, I also associated yous(e) with the local New York dialect, especially Italians, but also Irish-Americans and Irish born, to wit:

Yous(e) as a plural is found mainly in (Northern) England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, northern Nova Scotia, parts of Ontario in Canada and parts of the northeastern United States (especially areas like Boston where there was historically Irish immigration) and in Mexican-American communities in the southwest. It also occurs in Scouse. [Liverpool area which has always been a center of Irish immigrants in England]

Yous(e) as a singular is found in Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Cincinnati [1] and scattered throughout working class Italian-American communities in the Rust Belt.

Source of italicised text: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yous

Based on this, I would say with a fair bit of confidence that yous(e) is a feature of Irish English that Italian-Americans picked up from Irish immigrants in northeastern cities.


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Interesting. Always figured Italians had made it up in NYC Boston Philly. I've not had much interaction with old school Irish from the cities, though. Only Italians.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Washington State
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I grew up in an area where Sicilians emigrated and settled and my wife is of half Sicilian ancestry. But I think in other areas, Italians from different regions emigrated to other areas of the USA. I think Hollywood has made it seem like Sicilians were predominant though.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessemh431 View Post
I love being able to hear the Italian influences on the Portenos and Paulistanos. They definitely contributed to those accents a lot, obviously because of the Romance language similarities.

I wouldn't say their influence is nonexistent on people in the Northeast, though. I'm not an expert on dialectical influences, but I wonder if the concentrations of Italians affected certain accents. I.e. parts of the NYC Metro with large Italian influences tend to have stronger and/or different accents. As for actual words (how Rioplatense infuses Italian vocab, sentence structure, conjugation, etc.), the only thing I can think of is "yous". The only ethnic group I've heard refer to a group of people as "yous" is the Italian-Americans. Whether that's due to their conjugation/sentence structure (doubt it based on the Italian plural forms) or a simplification of the English language (adding an -s to make anything plural), I'm not sure.
Yeah, I think the difference between the Italians that came to the US vs. the ones in South America is the fact that English is much further away from Italian than Spanish or Portuguese are. Back when the Italians were emigrating to the Americas, "Standard Italian" didn't really exist in the way it does now because Italy had only been a country since 1860. So for many Italians going to South America, switching from their Italian dialect to Spanish or Portuguese was much closer to switching from one dialect to another than actually learning a new language.

I knew this Italian dude who lived in Mexico, and told me that it only took him 3 months to pick up Mexican Spanish, most of which was learning the local slang (Mexican Spanish has a ton of Indigenous influence, much more than any other country aside from Peru) rather than learning the grammar rules of Spanish. English took years for him.

For poor emigrant peasants who was barely literate in any language, I can imagine this being a lot harder to learn English for them than Spanish/Portuguese.

Quote:
Let's be real, though. Any city with a sizable and noticeable Italian population is often a city with a louder, more in-your-face culture. That's Italians from every region, and Southern Europeans as a whole.

As for this thread, if you had one guess on where an Italian-American's family is from in the NYC/NJ/Philly region, you better be going with Sicily as your first choice. They might not be the majority of all Italian immigrants to the US or the region, but they're often the single largest ancestral group.

As for the other poster wondering about Sicily not being Italian, politics aside, check out their languages. Someone who speaks Italian at a basic level (like me) has a very difficult time understanding someone speaking Sicilian. My friends nonna speaks to me in a mix of English, Italian, and Sicilian. I get the first two, but half the words are Sicilian and I have to fill in the blanks of Sicilian with what I think is accurate. It's almost never right. But I respond in Italian to her and she understands everything.
Yeah, the plurality of Italian American immigrants here were from Sicily.

Italian-Americans: The History of Immigration to America - GRAND VOYAGE ITALY

There's definitely a much larger Southern Italian component in the US than other Italian diaspora countries. Hence, why pizza (originally from Naples) and red sauce pasta dishes in general became much more popular here than things like "faina" (which you can find all over South America), white sauce dishes, etc.
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego CA>Tijuana, BC>San Antonio, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb View Post

I knew this Italian dude who lived in Mexico, and told me that it only took him 3 months to pick up Mexican Spanish, most of which was learning the local slang (Mexican Spanish has a ton of Indigenous influence, much more than any other country aside from Peru) rather than learning the grammar rules of Spanish. English took years for him.
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I get what you are saying but it is not really slang, there is a better word for indigenous words that influence that majority language, but I just can't think of it now.

Many more famous Argentines also have dual nationality with Italy although not being born in Italy, I wonder if the same happens here in the US.

Last edited by malcorub16; 04-03-2019 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 04-03-2019, 11:39 AM
 
429 posts, read 175,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malcorub16 View Post
I get what you are saying but it is not really slang, there is a better word for indigenous words that influence that majority language, but I just can't think of it now.
Yeah, I know the word you're trying to get at but I can't really think of it either. Let's just say "dialect difference" and err on the side of being overly formal.
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Old 04-05-2019, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Squirrel Tree
1,201 posts, read 263,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ABQConvict View Post
Growing up in NYC around a lot of Italian-Americans, I also associated yous(e) with the local New York dialect, especially Italians, but also Irish-Americans and Irish born, to wit:

Yous(e) as a plural is found mainly in (Northern) England, Scotland, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, northern Nova Scotia, parts of Ontario in Canada and parts of the northeastern United States (especially areas like Boston where there was historically Irish immigration) and in Mexican-American communities in the southwest. It also occurs in Scouse. [Liverpool area which has always been a center of Irish immigrants in England]

Yous(e) as a singular is found in Philadelphia, New York, Boston, Cincinnati [1] and scattered throughout working class Italian-American communities in the Rust Belt.

Source of italicised text: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yous

Based on this, I would say with a fair bit of confidence that yous(e) is a feature of Irish English that Italian-Americans picked up from Irish immigrants in northeastern cities.


.
Can confirm hearing youse mostly from Italian, Irish, and Jewish folks. Most other people say y'all here in NYC. One data point is that my friend's parents are from a spread out area near Naples. Otherwise I'm not sure.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:07 PM
 
11,976 posts, read 5,111,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash XY View Post
I think so, most northern Italians migrated to Brazil and Argentina rather than the US.
Mine must have missed the boat to South America. My northern Italian parents migrated to New Haven Conn. I have other northern Italian relatives that migrated to Detroit and New York between 1911 and the 1950s. None of my northern Italian relatives ever saw South America.
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