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Old 07-25-2014, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
New Orleans is an atypical city in the south, much like Miami.
So why can't DC be an atypical city in the South much like Miami?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
It is debatable whether New Orleans is even culturally southern anymore.
Is it really?

Is New Orleans a southern or southwestern city?
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Old 07-25-2014, 01:48 PM
 
Location: MD suburbs of DC
607 posts, read 1,093,103 times
Reputation: 426
I'm from the DC suburbs of Maryland and I can assure everyone here that everyone I know views our state as part of the Northeast, even if the census regions say otherwise. Additionally, more people I'm friends with are from Philadelphia or New York than from anywhere south of the DC area.

In my opinion, the designation of what is "north" and "south" should be decided by the people. According to several sources (too lazy to look them up), the majority of Maryland residents (and Delaware residents, and DC residents) do not view their state or region as part of the South, while Virginia residents do. Yes, a few people in the southern part of MD still retain a Southern identity, but they do not make up the majority of the population.

Hell, I remember back in middle school my US history teacher specifically said "I don't know why they still place Maryland in the Southeast, it's a whole different world down there" or something along those lines x)
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,247,479 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_J View Post
I'm from the DC suburbs of Maryland and I can assure everyone here that everyone I know views our state as part of the Northeast, even if the census regions say otherwise. Additionally, more people I'm friends with are from Philadelphia or New York than from anywhere south of the DC area.
A lot of my extended family lives in DC (multiple generations of Howard graduates) and many of them consider DC either southern or "Mid Atlantic." The anecdotes can go on and on and on and really don't mean anything.

And as the data provided shows, there are more domestic migrants from the South than any other region. If you know more northerners, or nothing but northerners, that's more or less a reflection of your social circles, not reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_J View Post
In my opinion, the designation of what is "north" and "south" should be decided by the people. According to several sources (too lazy to look them up), the majority of Maryland residents (and Delaware residents, and DC residents) do not view their state or region as part of the South, while Virginia residents do. Yes, a few people in the southern part of MD still retain a Southern identity, but they do not make up the majority of the population.
The only poll that's ever been conducted on this question was the UNC Southern Focus poll. In that poll, 40% of respondents said that Maryland was a southern state. And that 40% clearly can't all be in Southern Maryland since the Baltimore metro area and the DC suburbs (excluding Charles and Calvert) alone make up more than 80% of the state's population. In fact, Charles, Calvert and all of the counties of the Eastern Shore only make up 13% of the state's population.

Furthermore, a majority of respondents saying that Maryland is not southern does not mean that 60% believe that the state is northeastern. We've already seen that in the "Is Baltimore a Northeastern City" poll resurrected by muppethammer in the Baltimore forum. The Washington Post and the Baltimore Sun run an article on this issue at least every two years, and yet there's always someone who says "Well, everybody I know thinks it's northeastern." That means nothing. If it were so open and shut, then the Post and the Sun wouldn't keep writing articles about it. And there'd be no threads about it. We don't see too many "Is Brooklyn in the Northeast?" articles and threads.
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Old 07-25-2014, 02:21 PM
 
620 posts, read 687,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That map just separates widely by 6 major cities. What does that prove about regions? I didn't know Tennessee had anything to do with Philly, or Puerto Rico with NYC, let alone Texas with Denver (that would certainly p*ss off a lot of Texans, I presume, who have incredible state pride and would probably like to see their own city on that map above one in Colorado). Seems totally random to me, and like it's just done out of some sort of convenience, though I couldn't tell you who that is convenient to.

It is interesting though that they chose Philly and NYC seeing as they're only 90 miles apart.
This is because the census had to organize regions based on population. If they were using real regions based on culture and attitude, Tennessee and Puerto Rico would be in the Southeast, Texas would be in the Southwest, and Philly and NYC would be in the same region (Northeast), while the Northeast would have 13 states and DC.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:37 PM
 
620 posts, read 687,645 times
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Plus the US Census map that most people like to use looks lame. It makes the Mid-Atlantic states look like the Flintstones. Delaware is a Mid-Atlantic state just like Pennsylvania and New Jersey. The US Census didn't even know the history of Delaware when they were creating regions. Delaware had a similar history to Pennsylvania and New Jersey (formerly part of PA, Delaware River, Quakers, Middle Colony, Mid-Atlantic, New Netherland, New Sweden, culture, geography, etc.) If Delaware wanted to become a southern state when the Mason-Dixon line is used as North/South line, then Delaware has to give away land north of the Mason-Dixon line to Pennsylvania, while taking over parts of New Jersey south of the Mason-Dixon line. This means that Delaware would lose access to Wilmington and its northern suburbs, but would gain Atlantic City and the Southern Jersey Shore.

Last edited by muppethammer26; 07-25-2014 at 05:56 PM..
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,855 posts, read 7,804,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
That map just separates widely by 6 major cities. What does that prove about regions? I didn't know Tennessee had anything to do with Philly, or Puerto Rico with NYC, let alone Texas with Denver (that would certainly p*ss off a lot of Texans, I presume, who have incredible state pride and would probably like to see their own city on that map above one in Colorado). Seems totally random to me, and like it's just done out of some sort of convenience, though I couldn't tell you who that is convenient to.
So? The same argument could be made about the regions used once every 10 years solely to tally numbers. What does Wilmington have in common with El Paso? What does Tulsa have in common with Key West? What does Santa Fe have in common with Seattle? To quote you: "Seems totally random to me, and like it's just done out of some sort of convenience, though I couldn't tell you who that is convenient to."
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:59 AM
 
854 posts, read 1,113,590 times
Reputation: 963
Everywhere from Williston to Eastport IMO.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,488 posts, read 16,159,395 times
Reputation: 5637
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
This is because the census had to organize regions based on population. If they were using real regions based on culture and attitude, Tennessee and Puerto Rico would be in the Southeast, Texas would be in the Southwest, and Philly and NYC would be in the same region (Northeast), while the Northeast would have 13 states and DC.
It's strictly administrative. The Census Bureau had twice as many regional offices until last year. When they closed half of the offices, they lumped states into the purview of the remaining regional offices. That's why the regions in that map look so... odd.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:10 AM
 
620 posts, read 687,645 times
Reputation: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius View Post
It's strictly administrative. The Census Bureau had twice as many regional offices until last year. When they closed half of the offices, they lumped states into the purview of the remaining regional offices. That's why the regions in that map look so... odd.
This is why the PA/DE suburbs of Philadelphia gets served by the Philadelphia office but the NJ suburbs across the Delaware River including the cities of Camden and Trenton gets served instead by the NYC office. And Philadelphia borders a state that is served by another office, the only one to do so out of the 6 main cities.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:27 AM
 
142 posts, read 220,170 times
Reputation: 87
I think that all of this is just trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. We take Maryland, Delaware, and maybe even some of Virginia (square peg) and say it has to fit in the round hole of northeast or south. When we say every state on the east coast is either northeast or south we limit ourselves. As someone who has been all the way up north and all the way down south I can clearly see that MD, DC, DE, VA don't cleanly fit into either designation as well as the other east coast states do. Mid-atlantic is more accurate than Northeastern or South.
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