U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-26-2014, 10:25 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Historically speaking, Italians were actually the second-most likely group of "ethnic whites" to have relatively harmonious relationships with Blacks in northern cities, with only Greeks being more "integrated" overall. Possibly because they were considered among the most "suspect whites" in America up until relatively recently. It's typically been the Irish who have got along terribly with blacks in Northern cities.
That doesn't sound right, most of the worst racist anti-black incidents in NYC in the last half century or so were Italian-American neighborhoods.

Death of Yusef Hawkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Howard Beach racial incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Willie Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

among others. I have noticed it seems Italian-Americans socialize with blacks a bit more than other whites, but to see they had a history of harmonious relations is a stretch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-26-2014, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
That doesn't sound right, most of the worst racist anti-black incidents in NYC in the last half century or so were Italian-American neighborhoods.

Death of Yusef Hawkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Howard Beach racial incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Willie Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

among others. I have noticed it seems Italian-Americans socialize with blacks a bit more than other whites, but to see they had a history of harmonious relations is a stretch.
Note Al Sharpton is wearing a tracksuit in the pic in the first link. He's from Brooklyn. Coincidence? Just sayin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,917,166 times
Reputation: 10536
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
That doesn't sound right, most of the worst racist anti-black incidents in NYC in the last half century or so were Italian-American neighborhoods.

Death of Yusef Hawkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Howard Beach racial incident - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Willie Turks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

among others. I have noticed it seems Italian-Americans socialize with blacks a bit more than other whites, but to see they had a history of harmonious relations is a stretch.
I said relatively. And by the late 20th century, Italians were firmly ensconced as being "white" in the U.S., and developed similar attitudes to other ethnic whites. But if you go back to the early 20th century, in cities where there wasn't already a black neighborhood Italian and Greek neighborhoods were just about the only places black families could live without worrying about being lynched.

I can say personally speaking, my mother had first cousins who are half Sicilian (they live around Philly too, FWIW). They were dark enough when they got tans in the summer that some were not allowed to use the public pools. While most of them are Republican, taking after their father, not a one is racist due to the **** they got for being perceived as "mixed" as kids.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I said relatively. And by the late 20th century, Italians were firmly ensconced as being "white" in the U.S., and developed similar attitudes to other ethnic whites. But if you go back to the early 20th century, in cities where there wasn't already a black neighborhood Italian and Greek neighborhoods were just about the only places black families could live without worrying about being lynched.
I always thought this was more so true with Jewish neighborhoods.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:08 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,595,176 times
Reputation: 1072
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Philadelphia Italians have actually had quite the influence on Philly's Black community (especially in South Philly). The "Black Mafia" began in South Philadelphia and modeled its structure after the Italian mafia already operating in the area. "Skinny" Joey Merlino, who is to this day one of the biggest Philadelphia celebrities (though he lives in Florida now), was a backer of the R.A.M. Squad, a popular hip hop group during my high school days. And of course, Philadelphia hip hop is forever paying homage to its organized crime-ridden past.

History of Philly Crime

Philadelphia producers love to sample crime dramas.


Franco Micalizzi - Affanno - YouTube


Cassidy - Can I Talk To Ya? - No DJ HQ HD Dirty - YouTube
Exactly, hobbesdj needs to stick to talking about his area because he knows nothing about Philadelphia. Here is more Black Philly accents

Dion waiters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lcai...e_gdata_player

Black thought from the roots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc7H...e_gdata_player

Parking wars guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77tJ...e_gdata_player
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:10 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,985 posts, read 41,937,844 times
Reputation: 14804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

It's sort of similar to how neighborhood boundaries magically expand once gentrification kicks in. Either that or the neighborhood gets a whole new brand (i.e., Hudson Heights) if it's not in sufficient proximity to trendier neighborhoods.

How to Gentrify a Neighborhood: Just Study Hudson Heights - Gentrification Watch - Curbed NY
Hudson Heights was always distinct from the rest of the Washington Heights even before recent gentrification. It was a middle class island in a very crime area. It never really gentrified, it was always middle-class and just never underwent the declined that the rest of Washington Heights did (which was probably always somewhat poorer but not hugely so). Hudson Heights was mostly Jewish and had an influx of eastern European Jews postwar, the rest of Washington Heights was mostly Irish-American.

A friend from college (Russian Jewish) had a grandmother living in Hudson Heights in the 80s / 90s. He kept warning me my car would got torn to shreds or taken if I street parked in Washington Heights. Two of the people running the company my working for are Washington Heights natives: one Irish-Amrerican (grew up pre-white flight) and another Dominican. The white guy loved growing up there, the Dominican not so much, I think both live in New Jersey now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Hudson Heights was always distinct from the rest of the Washington Heights even before recent gentrification.
Who do you know who called it "Hudson Heights" prior to a few years ago? One of my friends who grew up in Washington Heights says she had never heard of it until a few years ago. Even Wiki said it wasn't used until gentrfication.

Quote:
"Hudson Heights" began to be used as a name for the neighborhood around 1993. Neighborhood activists formed a group in late 1992 to help promote the neighborhood and after considering several names, settled on the one that became part of their organization's name: Hudson Heights Owners' Coalition. According to one of the group's founders, real estate brokers didn't start using the name until after the group was formed.
Hudson Heights, Manhattan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now you see all types of listings on CL that say "Hudson Heights" when they're well east of St. Nicholas Avenue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Exactly, hobbesdj needs to stick to talking about his area because he knows nothing about Philadelphia. Here is more Black Philly accents
Unfortunately, linguists have given short shrift to non-White speakers, so we have to work primarily with very limited samples and anecdote. As a general matter, though, I find that Black speakers in Boston, New York or Philadelphia are more likely to adopt certain features of white-working class speech than they are in Baltimore or Chicago. Black Baltimoreans in particular seem to have pronunciations and vowel shifts that are unique to that community (the word "too," for example, is pronounced with a high "ew" sound).

If you fast forward to the 2:20 mark, you will hear this woman talk about how they would "take the bus right thaya to Franklin Pahhhk." That's a distinctively Bostonian pronunciation. Oddly enough, many white Bostonians don't pick up on it, but that manner of speaking stands out like nails on a chalkboard to me.


Why I Love Roxbury - YouTube
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 12:02 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,728 posts, read 6,137,255 times
Reputation: 3585
Blacks in the DC area kinda have that "pahhk the cahh" thing going on as well. They have a little more southern influence, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2014, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,255 posts, read 26,226,229 times
Reputation: 11711
Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Blacks in the DC area kinda have that "pahhk the cahh" thing going on as well. They have a little more southern influence, though.
I know what you mean, but they don't sound the same at all. The Boston accent is very nasally. For example, I say "Markie" and my barber used to say "Mawkie." It's a pronunciation that Blacks clearly share with working-class Whites there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > General U.S.
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top