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Old 07-27-2014, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Yakima WA
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Politically MD and DE are Northeastern states. There are no Southern states that are that solidly Dem. NOVA is part of the Northeast as well politically.
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Old 07-27-2014, 01:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay F View Post
Politically MD and DE are Northeastern states. There are no Southern states that are that solidly Dem. NOVA is part of the Northeast as well politically.
Is California "politically northeastern"?
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:17 PM
 
Location: MD suburbs of DC
607 posts, read 1,091,794 times
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Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Is California "politically northeastern"?
No, but MD, DE, and NoVA are geographically, economically, and to a lesser extent linguistically tied with the Northeast as well.
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Northeast states
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CT is like one big surbubs
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:22 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 25 days ago)
 
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Why is Delaware sometimes paired with Maryland and Virginia rather than New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania despite Delaware being a Middle Colony along with NY, PA and NJ from start when we are talking about the Northeast? The Mason-Dixon Line actually goes down along the MD/DE border rather than east into NJ and the ocean because DE used to be part of PA. The When talking about historical stuff, the Northeast (New England and Middle Colonies) should be ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, PA and DE while the Mid-Atlantic (Chesapeake Colonies) should be MD, WV, DC and VA, while the Southeast (Southern Colonies) should be NC, SC, GA, FL and PR. If Delaware was a Middle Colony, then naturally, Delaware is currently a Northeastern state.

Last edited by muppethammer26; 07-27-2014 at 08:30 PM..
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:14 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,129 posts, read 9,899,963 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
Why is Delaware sometimes paired with Maryland and Virginia rather than New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania despite Delaware being a Middle Colony along with NY, PA and NJ from start when we are talking about the Northeast? The Mason-Dixon Line actually goes down along the MD/DE border rather than east into NJ and the ocean because DE used to be part of PA. The When talking about historical stuff, the Northeast (New England and Middle Colonies) should be ME, NH, VT, MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, PA and DE while the Mid-Atlantic (Chesapeake Colonies) should be MD, WV, DC and VA, while the Southeast (Southern Colonies) should be NC, SC, GA, FL and PR. If Delaware was a Middle Colony, then naturally, Delaware is currently a Northeastern state.
That's actually a good question because historically like you say, Delaware was paired with the Northern colonies during the 1600s and 1700s. Especially with Pennsylvania.

But I can think of at least two reasons (and there are probably more) why Delaware began to be seen as Southern in the 1800s.

1. Delaware was one of the last Northern states to still have slavery.
2. Mapmakers often pair Delaware with Maryland and sometimes even with Virginia (In fact I have a National Geographic Map that does this). It sounds trivial but over many years people might have begun to associate Delaware more with Maryland and Virginia then with Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Center City
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Threads inviting views and opinions on the regional affiliation of DE, MD and other transitional states pop up very few months in this forum, and off they run in their predictable manner. I have observed there are two group of folks, but in reflecting further on it, I think it goes even deeper than gwiily's suggestion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I think the people debating on this topic can be divided into two main groups. One group are those who believe that the census bureau is the end all of everything and is a perfect measurement when it comes to defining regional boundaries. The other group are those who don't think that.
I might divide these groups as follows:
- Those who see north and south as binary designations - each state must lie in one and only one region, or . . .
- Those who see many shades of variance when looking at the invented concept of "regions"

The binary folks often rely on the Census designations to be the be-all/end-all of regional "assignments," as you state. It's as if when I drive 25 miles down the road to the DE border (where I often buy wine), I have left the region of "Yo Adrienne!" and "Fuggedaboutitt!!" and am now in the land of grits, magnolias and "Hi ya'll!" Another reason I don't see the regions through the Census lens is this: I have trouble lumping Wilmington in the same region as Lubbock, Baltimore in the same region as Jackson, and DC in the same region as Little Rock. To those who see this differently: YMMV - so be it.

But beyond the Census designations, I believe that much of what each of us consider to be regional is judged from were we sit. For example, I see folks from places such as Jersey and CT forcefully arguing in this thread that DE and MD are southern. I guess to them, they are - this demonstrates to me a binary mindset. But they should also realize that when the year-round residents of Down East Maine talk about all the summer visitors from "down south," they are referring to folks from Massachusetts. More food for thought: I can assure you that my friends from Texas and my in-laws from SC do not consider DE to be "way down south in the land of cotton." Further, I note that other than that fellow with the dollar sings in his username, I rarely see posters from the deep south proclaiming MD's southern nature.

I have no issue with those who, for whatever reason, need binary closure that this or that state belongs in this or that region. If it brings order to their life, go forth and be happy! But as I stated before, as someone who sees a bit more fluidity in all this, they should not expect me to always be in agreement with what to me are only subjective opinions. And therein lies the rub.
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
11,881 posts, read 10,377,878 times
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^Good post. I think much of the argument stems from people's negative connotations of "The South"-especially in New England and The Northeast. I remember as a kid seeing trailer parks in Delaware on one of our family roadtrips and thinking "this must be the South now"-of course that thinking is wrong and juvenile but I think it is a reason why some in Maryland and even Virginia are desperate to explain that there are no Southern qualities at all in their states-not even the charm, easy-going nature, great food and other positive associations with all things Southern. And of course there are trailer parks in Pennsylvania, New York and every state in the country.

It signifies a larger problem with national perceptions of "North" and "South".
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,248 posts, read 26,214,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
The binary folks often rely on the Census designations to be the be-all/end-all of regional "assignments," as you state. It's as if when I drive 25 miles down the road to the DE border (where I often buy wine), I have left the region of "Yo Adrienne!" and "Fuggedaboutitt!!" and am now in the land of grits, magnolias and "Hi ya'll!" Another reason I don't see the regions through the Census lens is this: I have trouble lumping Wilmington in the same region as Lubbock, Baltimore in the same region as Jackson, and DC in the same region as Little Rock. To those who see this differently: YMMV - so be it.
You should also have trouble lumping the Bronx into the same region as Burlington, VT. I mean, how do you reconcile those two?

Plenty of people have said that culture doesn't stop at state lines. Nobody's really arguing over that. What I've said (and I believe eschaton has said the same) is that Maryland is a southern state that doesn't feel culturally southern anymore. It's the same way Miami is not exempted from the South simply because it has a more transient character than it did in the past.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
But beyond the Census designations, I believe that much of what each of us consider to be regional is judged from were we sit. For example, I see folks from places such as Jersey and CT forcefully arguing in this thread that DE and MD are southern. I guess to them, they are - this demonstrates to me a binary mindset. But they should also realize that when the year-round residents of Down East Maine talk about all the summer visitors from "down south," they are referring to folks from Massachusetts. More food for thought: I can assure you that my friends from Texas and my in-laws from SC do not consider DE to be "way down south in the land of cotton." Further, I note that other than that fellow with the dollar sings in his username, I rarely see posters from the deep south proclaiming MD's southern nature.
Yet nobody says Massachusetts is part of the South. And that makes sense because it's not nor has it ever been. Maryland, on the other hand, was an inaugural member of the Southern Legislative Council and the Southern Governor's Association. So it makes sense that people would call it southern because it was strongly associated with the South for most of its existence. And no, "most of its existence" is not from 1980 onward.

From the inside, Maryland is neither northern nor southern. From the outside, it's too southern for northerners to be part of the "North" and too northern for southerners to be part of the South. These are the three general things most people who live or have lived in the area agree on. Thus, most people are satisfied with a "Mid Atlantic" designation, which recognizes that the state is not really in either region.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:07 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,219 posts, read 19,521,254 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
I have no issue with those who, for whatever reason, need binary closure that this or that state belongs in this or that region.
It is binary to a considerable extent because "culturally southern" and "predominantly liberal" don't really mix, in most people's perceptions. It feels like inverted logic or an oxymoron.

Or there would need to be a wholesale redefining of what it means to be southern.
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