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Old 07-29-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: MD suburbs of DC
607 posts, read 1,092,467 times
Reputation: 426

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The vast majority of Maryland residents live in the Baltimore-DC combined statistical area. This is also by far where the wealth economy of the state is concentrated. If someone moves to Maryland, chances are they will very likely live and work in this area - particularly in the most built-up parts of it - and not in a sparsely populated area of the rural eastern shore. That is mainly for catching some waves at the beach once a year.

So, central Maryland is what is mainly relevant to modern times as far as the cultural and regional identity of the state goes. The eastern shore has some interesting wildlife, marshland and marinas though.
Took the words right out of my mouth. If the majority of people live and associate with the area, it should be considered representative of the state as a whole.

Hopefully this will shut the $mk guy up for good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I've never considered any part of New Jersey southern. I've lived here my whole life, in the northern portion yes, but I've gone to Cape May yearly nearly my whole life as well and have never heard the suggestion anything south Jersey is southern. Cape May area, as well as the southern shore, is a mix of both Philly and New York/Nee Jersey visitors, and a lot of Canadians as well. I know that southwest Jersey is a bit more "rural" or whatever, but still - never heard the possibility. The suggestion is insane. NJ is thoroughly northeastern, at all its points.
Honestly, I've been to far southern NJ before, and it's felt more Southern to me than the DC suburbs... that's just me though. It's up for interpretation.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,231,676 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by David_J View Post
Took the words right out of my mouth. If the majority of people live and associate with the area, it should be considered representative of the state as a whole.
That still doesn't address eschaton's point. After accounting for Central Maryland, he's saying that the state is not northeastern. You guys are acting dumb and pretending like he's basing his statement on St. Mary's County alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_J View Post
Honestly, I've been to far southern NJ before, and it's felt more Southern to me than the DC suburbs... that's just me though. It's up for interpretation.
Here's my question...are the DC suburbs more "northern" than most of DC? I can tell you from first-hand experience that there isn't anything remotely northern about Ledroit Park, Shaw, or Bloomingdale. What parts of suburban Maryland are more "northern" than Central DC?
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,852 posts, read 7,799,244 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Delaware is more of a mix, because the northern third is basically indistinguishable from the Philly suburbs, but the southern 2/3rds (below the canal - "Lower and Slower") is actually fairly similar to any part of "Tidewater" Virginia, once you get outside of Dover or the beach towns.
Although I didn't agree with everything in your post, I found it well-thought out and repped you. As for the above, I agree with this view of DE expect I fail to make any Tidewater connection with downstate Delaware or into MD's Eastern Shore, for that matter. I grew up in Sussex County (DE), have lived in both New Castle County and Tidewater Virginia and have lots of relatives on the Eastern Shore. NCC is anchored by Wilmington, which is its own economic engine, but culture-wise, it is indistinguishable from Philly. Sussex County is indeed "slower and lower" but it is a different animal from Tidewater Virginia. The two are considerably different in many imparntnat ways including:
- Accents and lingo: "you guys" in DE v "y'all" in Tidewater
- Diets: scrapple and potatoes in DE and biscuits, gravy and grits in Tidewater
- Agriculture: chickens, corn and soybeans are king in rural DE and peanuts rule in Tidewater (and even cotton is grown there)
- Urban influence: southern DE looks to the more northern centers of Philly and Balto and Tidewater is under Norfolk's bubble
- History: DE was once part of PA and Virginia seceded and was home of capital of the Confederacy

Actually, I feel the closer analogy for Sussex Co is to southern NJ. For example, the beach areas from Lewes to Fenwick Island could be also described as follows with one exception:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The Jersey Shore is pretty culturally/politically similar (white and fairly conservative) all the way from South Amboy all the way to Cape May . . .
The exception is that in DE, the beach areas are the politically and culturally liberal slice of downstate.

I also feel the inland regions of Sussex County match up fairly well with this description:
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I do think that Salem and Cumberland counties have a very slight touch of the south though. They remain largely agricultural, and actually have a rural black population, which is a rarity in northern states. The local dialect is not Philadelphia English, and is somewhat similar to much of the Delmarva. Still, I'd just call it the northernmost place with a southern influence. And it's just two counties (and sparsely populated ones) at that.
In fact, you yourself seem to feel the rural areas of South Jersey are comparable to those of Delmarva and I agree. I take it a step further as I see comparisons between South Jersey's more "urbanized/populated" inland centers with those of Delmarva. Salisbury (Wicomico, MD) and Dover (Kent, DE) find a nice counterpart in Vineland and Seaford (Sussex, DE) matches up nicely with Bridgeton - all towns I consider mid-Atlantic, not southern. Yet if I was forced into making a binary choice, I'd certainly assign more northeasterly attributes to these mid-Altantic towns that I would southern attributes. Fortunately, I can live with a little fluidity and therefore don't need to divide things nicely into one pile or the other.

All of these are my opinions based on personal experience and observations. To others, YMMV, of course.

Last edited by Pine to Vine; 07-29-2014 at 12:33 PM..
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:06 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,325 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisvishr0 View Post
MD's southern-ness isn't clear for a large proportion of Americans.

If you don't agree with me, it means you're not listening to others. Again, your opinion isn't wrong, but by no means are you unconditionally right just because you say so. People's opinions matter. Please accept that and provide support for your arguments, rather than justify yourself through a "because I said so" attitude.
You are entitled to your little opinion however it does not take away from the Fact that Maryland is below the Mason/Dixon line which makes it a Southern State. If you refuse to accept the reality that Maryland is a Southern State then that is your issue. Don't try to attack me because you can't handle the truth.

Last edited by $mk8795; 07-29-2014 at 01:16 PM..
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:54 PM
 
56 posts, read 61,360 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
You are entitled to your little opinion however it does not take away from the Fact that Maryland is below the Mason/Dixon line which makes it a Southern State. If you refuse to accept the reality that Maryland is a Southern State then that is your issue. Don't try to attack me because you can't handle the truth.
As I said before, the Mason-Dixon line isn't necessarily relevant nowadays. Again, you're passing off your opinion as the "truth", which is kinda what I explicitly said you shouldn't do.......

Anyways, I concede that MD used to be a southern state, but it's more of a transition state now, at least in urban areas. Culturally, I feel more northeastern. As someone said before, states aren't really relevant, because cultures can change so much within administrative borders...

Anyways, I can tell that you're trolling (even if you don't mean to), because you don't seem to want to listen to what anyone says, including me. I told you not to say that your opinion was the "truth," and yet you did. Oh well, I guess that means you're not here to have an educated discussion, and you just want to unconditionally assert your opinion... which is fine elsewhere. I'm not trying to attack you, I just want to have a discussion with you (rather than hear you give us a lecture about why you're always right). Can you give me a reason as to why the urban areas in MD are, in their MODERN state, culturally southern? Note that the Civil War isn't happening anymore.

Geographically, we are probably more southern: most of MD has a subtropical climate rather than a continental climate (even though many suburbs in the DC area get more snow than Philly). We have more deciduous trees than evergreen, conical trees. It's hot in the summer, and not bitter cold in the winter.

If you look at ancestries, MD is indeed a "battleground" state, with areas in the north with clearly German ancestry, but areas in the south with predominantly African American ancestry. With religion, there are more Catholics in MD than Baptists, which is similar to the northeast. Again, it's not as clear cut as you make it seem, yet you don't want to acknowledge this.

See, this is what a discussion is: listening to other people and being ready to mould your opinions. I concede that MD has many southern attributes. Do you concede that it has many northeastern attributes as well? Because, if you don't, you're not listening to any of us! Just answer this question, and I'll be off your case. Do you concede that MD has many northeastern qualities as well?
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,231,676 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisvishr0 View Post
With religion, there are more Catholics in MD than Baptists, which is similar to the northeast.
The majority of Catholics in Maryland are non-White, which is unlike the Northeast. Also, Catholics and Jews make up the majority (or very close to a majority) of non-Hispanic whites in most Northeastern metros.
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:19 PM
 
56 posts, read 61,360 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That still doesn't address eschaton's point. After accounting for Central Maryland, he's saying that the state is not northeastern. You guys are acting dumb and pretending like he's basing his statement on St. Mary's County alone.



Here's my question...are the DC suburbs more "northern" than most of DC? I can tell you from first-hand experience that there isn't anything remotely northern about Ledroit Park, Shaw, or Bloomingdale. What parts of suburban Maryland are more "northern" than Central DC?
I think much of upper NW DC (Tenleytown, Georgetown even Adam's Morgan, etc.) looks more like Philly and Baltimore than Richmond, but that's just me. The suburbs in DC, especially in the north and west, aren't as "stripmall-driven" as many southern neighborhoods in Houston, Atlanta or Columbia, which is more characteristic of the north. The more inner suburbs are "town-centric" rather than sprawling, like in the south. However, many of the newer outer suburbs (Germantown, Sterling, Reston, Leesburg) do seem more southern.

I still think our attitude is more northern: there's less evident racism, fried-food culture, conservatism, pick-up trucks, almost no "y'alls" or "sweet tea" and a big Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts culture. I found in the south (Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, Richmond, Raleigh), even people in urban areas had pickup trucks.

Of course, travel 20 miles south, east or west of DC, you find southern culture. It's like a peninsula, which arguably suggests that MD, as a whole, is southern. I'm willing to concede that. I'm just not willing to concede that I am a southerner, nor is my immediate community, living in suburban MD.

Attitude and culture have nothing to do with the Mason-Dixon line anymore, mk8795. Cultural boundaries transcend historical and administrative boundaries. Please understand that.
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:22 PM
 
56 posts, read 61,360 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The majority of Catholics in Maryland are non-White, which is unlike the Northeast. Also, Catholics and Jews make up the majority (or very close to a majority) of non-Hispanic whites in most Northeastern metros.
That's true. In this map, however, even white-majority counties are mostly Catholic in MD (rather than Baptist):

http://www.bagofnothing.com/wordpres...-by-County.jpg
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:30 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,806,325 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisvishr0 View Post
As I said before, the Mason-Dixon line isn't necessarily relevant nowadays.
The opinions of others argument against the Fact that Maryland is a Southern state is irrelevant and most people argue it is due to not wanting the rest of the south to be associated with the state of Maryland. However at the end of the day Maryland is a Southern state or else Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky are Northeastern states while Florida is the Northern Caribbean and Texas is a Southwest state/Northern Mexican Territory...
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:37 PM
 
56 posts, read 61,360 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by $mk8795 View Post
The opinions of others argument against the Fact that Maryland is a Southern state is irrelevant and most people argue it is due to not wanting the rest of the south to be associated with the state of Maryland. However at the end of the day Maryland is a Southern state or else Virginia, North Carolina, and Kentucky are Northeastern states while Florida is the Northern Caribbean and Texas is a Southwest state/Northern Mexican Territory...
Never mind, I give up. You're right. MD is totally southern. You're opinion is the final word. You are the greatest power in this entire forum.

To the other posters on this forum: I'm sorry I wasted your time by trying to have a discussion with him/her. I should have realized he didn't care about what I thought.
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