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I still think our attitude is more northern: there's less evident racism, fried-food culture, conservatism, pick-up trucks, almost no "y'alls" or "sweet tea" and a big Starbucks/Dunkin Donuts culture. I found in the south (Atlanta, Houston, Charlotte, Richmond, Raleigh), even people in urban areas had pickup trucks.
Of course, travel 20 miles south, east or west of DC, you find southern culture. It's like a peninsula, which arguably suggests that MD, as a whole, is southern. I'm willing to concede that. I'm just not willing to concede that I am a southerner, nor is my immediate community, living in suburban MD.
Attitude and culture have nothing to do with the Mason-Dixon line anymore, mk8795. Cultural boundaries transcend historical and administrative boundaries. Please understand that.
Montgomery County and Baltimore do not define the state of Maryland just like Atlanta and Fulton County do not define the state of Georgia.
I think much of upper NW DC (Tenleytown, Georgetown even Adam's Morgan, etc.) looks more like Philly and Baltimore than Richmond, but that's just me.
Whoa. If you said Brightwood, then I could possibly see where you were coming from. But I was really talking about the people and the feel of the city more than anything else. You can only get that from living there (I mean, actually in the city, not near it). None of the places you mentioned are anything like Philly.
Tenleytown is about as generic as you can possibly get. Georgetown is similarly generic and reminds me more or less of a J. Crew catalog. Adams-Morgan had a Latino identity decades ago, which has now given way to the Arlington/UVA frat crew. Columbia Heights and the U Street corridor are better, but still feel very Anglo. And of course, the near majority of DC residents and neighborhoods are African American, and those neighborhoods have a feel that's very distinct from Harlem, Roxbury, or North Philly.
New York does not feel that way to me at all...at least not in the majority of neighborhoods that are away from the cupcakes and Fro-Yo crowd.
Montgomery County and Baltimore do not define the state of Maryland just like Atlanta and Fulton County do not define the state of Georgia.
Thank you for listening to me. You seem to understand my point, finally! The rural counties of MD don't define MD either. It's a mix of both. That's what I was getting at.
Bajan Yankee: I went to school in Tenleytown (even though I lived outside the city, long story), so I know the people there. I also visit Philly pretty regularly (a couple of times a year): I was talking about the people as well, rather than the physical architecture.
You're right, though, in that the African-American-predominant neighborhoods seem more southern. That's where the only Bojangles in the DC area is...
I'd say the white population is very northeastern, and the black population is very southern. As I said before, most of my white friends identified with the northeast more (at least when I asked them a few years back).
Never mind, I give up. You're right. MD is totally southern. You're opinion is the final word. You are the greatest power in this entire forum.
To the other posters on this forum: I'm sorry I wasted your time by trying to have a discussion with him/her. I should have realized he didn't care about what I thought.
I never said I did not care. I did say that you are entitled to your opinion.
Bajan Yankee: I went to school in Tenleytown (even though I lived outside the city, long story), so I know the people there. I also visit Philly pretty regularly (a couple of times a year): I was talking about the people as well, rather than the physical architecture.
Tenleytown is nothing like Philadelphia. Had you said Petworth, Brightwood, and some of the areas heading east off Kansas Avenue, then I could see your point as there are some areas that are reminiscient of what you see on Limekiln Pike, Upsal Street, and Stenton. But Philadelphia is generally not very much like DC unless you have a very narrow view of Philadelphia (and DC for that matter).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisvishr0
You're right, though, in that the African-American-predominant neighborhoods seem more southern. That's where the only Bojangles in the DC area is...
The Bojangles is in Union Station, which isn't located in a Black neighborhood...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisvishr0
I'd say the white population is very northeastern, and the black population is very southern. As I said before, most of my white friends identified with the northeast more (at least when I asked them a few years back).
You know, I'm not a fan of this "DC is now _______ since white people are now here" line of argument. And that's sort of implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) being pushed here. Nevermind that a large portion of the "white" people you come across in New York (if you leave Manhattan) or Philly are not the Fro-Yo/SWPL crowd.
The white people in the DC area come from everywhere. Someone from Greensboro, NC who attended school at UVA does not make the region more "northern" simply because they are educated, make a lot of money working for a contractor, don't have a southern accent, and drive a luxury car. There are essentially no regional distinctions among upper income, highly educated white people (particularly whites of Protestant background). The person I described is no different from the Yups living in Midtown Atlanta.
So what you call "northern," I call generically SWPL. "Northern" is my secretary with an overwhelming New York accent who boasts to everyone in the office about her family's mob connections.
Tenleytown is nothing like Philadelphia. Had you said Petworth, Brightwood, and some of the areas heading east off Kansas Avenue, then I could see your point as there are some areas that are reminiscient of what you see on Limekiln Pike, Upsal Street, and Stenton. But Philadelphia is generally not very much like DC unless you have a very narrow view of Philadelphia (and DC for that matter).
The Bojangles is in Union Station, which isn't located in a Black neighborhood...
You know, I'm not a fan of this "DC is now _______ since white people are now here" line of argument. And that's sort of implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) being pushed here. Nevermind that a large portion of the "white" people you come across in New York (if you leave Manhattan) or Philly are not the Fro-Yo/SWPL crowd.
The white people in the DC area come from everywhere. Someone from Greensboro, NC who attended school at UVA does not make the region more "northern" simply because they are educated, make a lot of money working for a contractor, don't have a southern accent, and drive a luxury car. There are essentially no regional distinctions among upper income, highly educated white people (particularly whites of Protestant background). The person I described is no different from the Yups living in Midtown Atlanta (they often bounce around between SWPL enclaves anyway...living in Atlanta in 2014, then DC in 2016, then Portland by 2018).
So what you call "northern," I call generically SWPL. "Northern" is my secretary with an overwhelming New York accent who boasts about her family's mob connections.
You're right, I guess. I guess even yuppies in Atlanta would relate to the north more... Interesting idea...
The more I hang around here, the more I start to think MD is southern... The only thing stopping me is the fact that our political views don't seem to match up with the rest of the south. Being a non-white person, I've never felt discriminated against or perceived differently like I was in Houston and in Atlanta (and it was definitely notable there!). I've never seen a Confederate flag around here (while I've seen many even in urban Houston itself), and we don't say "y'all" and we don't have manners. You'd say that that's because there are so many people here who aren't from the south, and I'd agree with you. But I'd say the fact that there are so many more transplants from the north makes DC a transient, northern city, just like Massachusetts had a very "English" culture when colonists arrived (more so than when there were only Native Americans here). Just because we're not "ancestrally" northeastern doesn't mean we're not culturally northeastern.
We're in the South, but we're a Northeastern area. People make a city/state. There's a huge quantity of northerners in MD, so we're culturally northern (even if we're not supposed to be, and even if that population is constantly ebbing and flowing, and transient). That's how I've felt, but all of your points make sense. You might just convince me yet...
Why does just about every "what is Northern or Southern" thread turn into an "is Maryland Southern" thread?
Because people either go by history or the Census to designate it (Southern), then the Maryland residents who don't want to be associated with the South at all chime in claiming it's Northern, despite any history or federal government designations others claim.
Me? I think it's neither. It is historically Southern, no question there, but now it is solidly mid-Atlantic, IMO.
But if I had to choose North or South for it, as in no other option, I'd honestly choose South.
Because people either go by history or the Census to designate it (Southern), then the Maryland residents who don't want to be associated with the South at all chime in claiming it's Northern, despite any history or federal government designations others claim.
Actually, most Marylanders take it for granted that Maryland is mainly a northeastern state nowadays. Maryland falls within the northeast BosWash corridor. The "mid-Atlantic" designation again simply means lower northeast. It's not something that is debated or talked about much.
On the other hand, the objection to this identity for Maryland seems to come more from people who live in states north of Maryland.
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