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Old 07-30-2014, 12:44 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,808,383 times
Reputation: 357

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Wow, at least you admit that you are a southerner that refuse to be associated with Maryland. Now when you people can get over the Fact that you can not ever change the Fact that Maryland is a Southern state then hopefully there will be better topics to discuss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
And the only time I've ever seen people vehemently asserting that MD and DE are not the northeast is here on City Data. It seems that you along with the dollar sign MK guy (#mk3895 or whatever) and BajanYankee and nep321 make appearances on every thread to tell everyone that Maryland is in fact the south. Its honestly the same handful of people who take this stance on every north/south thread.

You say that just because you in New Jersey have never heard of MD being the north (living my life as a Marylander I find this extremely difficult to believe) then it must be the fact. Ironically, I am an actual Marylander, not northern New Jerseyite, and have never ever been called a southerner by anyone outside of Maryland or Delaware including those from New Jersey. Believe it or not, when we go to "real" south we are "Yankees" just like you. I have never ever been called a southerner by a Californian or Iowan or anyone from an unbiased region. I even lived in Canada where lo-and behold I was from the "northeastern US". In the few instances where I have claimed to be a "southerner" to people from Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Canada, the midwest or the west, I have been met with blank stares and a question of amazement that Maryland could possibly be southern. The idea that Maryland is a southern state is really just laughable to actual southerners. You might as well toss PA, NJ, and Ohio in there as well.

I personally like the south better, so I don't know how you are going to claim I have a problem with the south and "want" to be northeastern. If I had to pick a region to be a part of I'd pick the south, but the reality is that Maryland is just another rich liberal northeastern blue state. If you want to chalk this up to people from Maryland trying to be what they aren't, well then that's your choice, but the reality is that Maryland and Delaware are culturally, politically, and economically part of the northeast. But hey, you are from northern New Jersey, so you must know better than actual Marylanders what we are considered when interacting with outsiders, right? Here's a test: tell those nice Texans that Maryland is the south and look at the response. That should go over well.
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Old 07-30-2014, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Yet Maryland overwhelmingly voted 53-14 to STAY in the Union when the CSA was being formed in 1861.
Yes, after the Governor moved the assembly from Annapolis to the more union-sympathetic part of the state.

Quote:
Ordinarily the assembly would have met in Annapolis, but the state capital was occupied by the troops of General Butler, who immediately let it be known that he would have no compunction against arresting any secession-minded legislators.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com...ype=blogs&_r=0

So yeah, it's not surprising that they voted against secession.

Quote:
We might as well call New Jersey southern since it still had slavery in 1864 when the Maryland state government had abolished it.
Such a tired argument.

Number of Slaves in Maryland in 1860 - 87,189 (50.9% of Black population)
Number of Slaves in New Jersey in 1860 - 18 (0.007% of Black population)

Apparently, some people have difficulty making the distinction between slavery and a slave economy. Maryland had the latter.

Quote:
So is Puerto Rico - so that is clear evidence that Puerto Rico definitely must be southern, right?
I've already smacked down this weak ass argument in the past. Maryland was an inaugural member of the SLC and SGA. This was during a time when southern states all had one thing in common: Jim Crow. Puerto Rico did not become a member until the late 60s or early 70s and would be out of place no matter what region it's placed in.

Quote:
Segregation directly correlated with the white to black population ratio wherever it was in the country. Few blacks lived in the north before the Great Migration and those that did were restricted to living in certain neighborhoods, going to certain schools, and working certain jobs. Blacks weren't numerous enough to warrant intervention by the state governments or state funding for separate schools.
Exactly. In the Northeast, they were too busy discriminating against the boatloads of Catholics and Jews who arrived there. So instead of having a stark Black/White binary as the South did, it became much more of an ethnic collage where identity politics and organized labor came to reign supreme. As a consequence, the Northeast generally has a greater ethnic consciousness than other parts of the nation. You're not just Black or White in New York. You're Italian, Jamaican, Irish, etc. People cleave strongly to those identities because the politics of ethnic identity were so strong for so many decades. It's become a part of our DNA.

Quote:
Even the northern states that claim to have "forbidden" school separation still engaged in defacto school segregation by neighborhoods which were of course aligned along racial lines. Massachusetts is a great example, where Boston remained segregated until the 1980's with the busing situation.
There is a difference between racial discrimination and Jim Crow. If you don't understand the difference, ask an old black person.

Quote:
It is always interesting to see northerners making it sound like segregation and racism didn't exist in the north, when it was just as prevalent anywhere that there were actually significant numbers of black people. Where where all the the mixed race northerners in 1950? Of that's right, whites and blacks in the north were segregated so they rarely mixed!
Where did I say segregation didn't exist? I said that the North did not have Jim Crow, which is true. That's the principal difference between the North and South.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Unfortunately, Reginald Lewis and his observations of Baltimore are not the final authority on Maryland. Why don't we lay out the political, linguistic, and cultural realities of the state, and you let me know if you can counter them and seriously classify Maryland as southern.
First, why do you keep introducing strawman arguments? You're going ignore if you don't end this silliness.

Second, I've already covered each in every one of your points at least 10 times in at least 13 threads on this subject. I'm not going to repeat them again.

Last edited by BajanYankee; 07-30-2014 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:01 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,808,383 times
Reputation: 357
Who are you trying to fool??? You and a lot of other old school folx from the deep south do not like or respect the state of Maryland by showing arrogance of denial to the FACT that Maryland is a Southern State. You people treat the state of Maryland the same way you people treated African Americans before the 1960s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
And basically all I hear is you saying is "Maryland? No way, that couldn't possibly be the northeast. For this, this, and this reason. They're obviously more southern. Ew, Maryland, no way". As if the northeast is some sort of exclusive club for the pure-blooded only. This is the kind of attitude that makes me leery of the suggestion that Maryland is southern.

IMHO the south is "more desireable politically and maybe even culturally". So what's the excuse now? Let me guess - my hatred of the south is making me identify Maryland as the northeast, right? Give me a break. The idea that Maryland is southern is laughable, and one that is boosted only by the same handful posters on City Data, and not much in the real world. If you were really convinced that Maryland isn't the northeast, then you wouldn't make countless posts trying to convince everyone otherwise.
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:05 PM
 
1,955 posts, read 1,947,970 times
Reputation: 1755
Maryland, a slave state in the Civil War is a Southern State exactly for that reason.
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:07 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,808,383 times
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Boston is not Southern but Baltimore and DC is Southern.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Guess Massachusetts is also southern: "The Boston busing crisis (19741988) was a series of protests and riots that occurred in Boston, Massachusetts in response to the passing of the 1965 Racial Imbalance Act, which ordered public schools in the state to desegregate." Boston busing crisis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Well wait . . . most of the rioting did occur in South Boston:


Boston Busing Crisis - YouTube
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:10 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,808,383 times
Reputation: 357
Only old school folx from the deep south who are bitter towards the civil war would agree to the opinionated commentary below. Intelligent well civilized people would disagree of Maryland and Delaware being Northeastern States.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JSmitty187 View Post
The Northeast:

New England
New York
Pennsylvania
New Jersey
Maryland
Delaware


I have lived in many parts of the US as well as in Canada and briefly in Europe....I never knew anyone considered Maryland or Delaware southern. Ive only heard of Maryland as a regular northeastern state like New Jersey. Personally I find nothing southern about that place and that sounds a bit out there. Kind of like someone calling Illinois or Ohio southern. Now Virginia - THATs a southern state.

Last edited by $mk8795; 07-30-2014 at 01:36 PM..
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:28 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,492,183 times
Reputation: 3406
the union states on the east coast, but dc, maryland and delaware still
has a little bit of southern, country identity left within them, regardless
of what people say.
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Old 07-30-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,277 posts, read 19,566,600 times
Reputation: 13053
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
the union states on the east coast, but dc, maryland and delaware still
has a little bit of southern, country identity left within them, regardless
of what people say.
Interestingly, New York state is more country/rural than either Maryland or Delaware.
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:00 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,808,383 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Interestingly, New York state is more country/rural than either Maryland or Delaware.
But New York is Northern rural while Maryland/Delaware is Southern Country/Rural....
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Old 07-30-2014, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
This is New York City "culture." Not cupcakes and Fro Yo shops. These are the men who literally built New York City.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gfSEjMtAoc

Many of the Sandhogs are of Bajan ancestry. It was largely Bajan and Jamaican labor that built the Panama Canal, and after its completion in 1914, most of them headed to New York to help build the tunnels and infrastructure (along with the Irish) that make the city's cupcakes, luxury condos and artisanal gourmet bakeries possible.
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