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Old 07-21-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Location: The City
22,345 posts, read 32,231,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
I agree. Philadelphia's metropolitan area is split in 3 states (Southeastern Pennsylvania, Southern New Jersey and Delaware), while Baltimore/Washington's metropolitan area is split in 4 states (South Central Pennsylvania, Central Maryland, Northern Virginia and Eastern West Virginia as well as the District of Columbia). I think it's weird to split the metropolitan areas into 2 regions. So that means you also have to consider WV and VA northeastern states too since both WV and VA have parts of the Washington metropolitan area. Parallel 36 30 North seems to be a best dividing line between the North and the South since no metropolitan areas run through it.
Are any of the Baltimore CSA counties in PA - I thought no

FWIW Cecil county MD is part of the Philly MSA but must say to me I know nothing about it really with the exception of the Harve De Grace area which I think is actually across the border in the Baltimore MSA
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Old 07-21-2014, 01:47 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 4 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Are any of the Baltimore CSA counties in PA - I thought no

FWIW Cecil county MD is part of the Philly MSA but must say to me I know nothing about it really with the exception of the Harve De Grace area which I think is actually across the border in the Baltimore MSA
York, PA to Baltimore, MD is about the same distance as Atlantic City, NJ to Philadelphia, PA. So you can include some PA counties in the Greater Baltimore Area just like you include some Jersey Shore counties in the Greater Philadelphia Area. Even the western parts of the Delmarva Peninsula, Washington, DC and Northern Virginia are part of the Greater Baltimore Area due to how close those areas are.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:39 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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If you look at the history of Maryland and Delaware, there is no question Maryland was a southern state, and Delaware was a state with some northern and some southern characteristics. Admittedly the "colonization" of these states (particularly Maryland around the DC area) by transplanted northeasterners has changed the states considerably culturally.

But the problem with taking them out of the Southeast is it looks like Virginia, and perhaps North Carolina, are headed in the same general direction. So does that mean in ten years Virginia will be northeastern, and in 20 years North Carolina? I think not. It just means that like (most of) Florida, they are southern states which won't be very culturally southern any longer. Thus by the same definition, Maryland and perhaps Delaware could also be considered still part of the Southeast - just not "culturally Southern."
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
York, PA to Baltimore, MD is about the same distance as Atlantic City, NJ to Philadelphia, PA. So you can include some PA counties in the Greater Baltimore Area just like you include some Jersey Shore counties in the Greater Philadelphia Area. Even the western parts of the Delmarva Peninsula, Washington, DC and Northern Virginia are part of the Greater Baltimore Area due to how close those areas are.
Los Angeles to Nipton CA is about the same distance as New York to Martinsburg, WV. So you can include some WV counties in the Greater New York area.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:52 PM
 
Location: The City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
York, PA to Baltimore, MD is about the same distance as Atlantic City, NJ to Philadelphia, PA. So you can include some PA counties in the Greater Baltimore Area just like you include some Jersey Shore counties in the Greater Philadelphia Area. Even the western parts of the Delmarva Peninsula, Washington, DC and Northern Virginia are part of the Greater Baltimore Area due to how close those areas are.
Atlantic county (only 18 miles from Center City to begin with) is part of CSA currently actually - distance doesnt mean anything - Mercer is only like 12 miles from Philly proper yet not part of the MSA or CSA

Also Lancaster is about exactly the same distance to Philly to begin with - should Philly include Lancaster as well? Last I looked the Philly MSA had more commuters from Lancaster county than did the Baltimore MSA to boot
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: The City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
If you look at the history of Maryland and Delaware, there is no question Maryland was a southern state, and Delaware was a state with some northern and some southern characteristics. Admittedly the "colonization" of these states (particularly Maryland around the DC area) by transplanted northeasterners has changed the states considerably culturally.

But the problem with taking them out of the Southeast is it looks like Virginia, and perhaps North Carolina, are headed in the same general direction. So does that mean in ten years Virginia will be northeastern, and in 20 years North Carolina? I think not. It just means that like (most of) Florida, they are southern states which won't be very culturally southern any longer. Thus by the same definition, Maryland and perhaps Delaware could also be considered still part of the Southeast - just not "culturally Southern."
I honestly dont get too caught up in it as the distinction has greyed. Parts of MD or PA have more in common etc.

the population of DE today i mostly on the border of PA around Wilmington and feels really no different than suburban PA counties to a great extent. Applachia MD is like Appalchia PA or WV. The Delmarva is sort of all its own - gets more pronounced a littel south of DE but some of the feel is there too.

MD, DE, PA etc are all Mid Atlantic - some would say Mid Atlantic is the southern portion of the Northeast - makes sense - especially in the corridor down to NOVA- Norfolk or Richmond are to me a stretch
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:03 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 4 days ago)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
Atlantic county (only 18 miles from Center City to begin with) is part of CSA currently actually - distance doesnt mean anything - Mercer is only like 12 miles from Philly proper yet not part of the MSA or CSA

Also Lancaster is about exactly the same distance to Philly to begin with - should Philly include Lancaster as well? Last I looked the Philly MSA had more commuters from Lancaster county than did the Baltimore MSA to boot
Mercer County, NJ is actually part of the Greater Philadelphia Region, but the US Census didn't put Mercer as part of Philadelphia due to more people commuting into Manhattan rather than Philadelphia. MSA/CSA is how people commute to a central city, while the Metropolitan Area is how the central city connects things within 50 mile radius.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Coastal Northeast
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Originally Posted by 8to32characters View Post
FWIW, most people in the West consider Michigan to be "East Coast" anyway.
Uh, no they don't.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
Mercer County, NJ is actually part of the Greater Philadelphia Region, but the US Census didn't put Mercer as part of Philadelphia due to more people commuting into Manhattan rather than Philadelphia. MSA/CSA is how people commute to a central city, while the Metropolitan Area is how the central city connects things within 50 mile radius.
No, Mercer County is currently part of the NY region as it's within either NYC's MSA or CSA, I get confused between the two and cannot look it up right now.

In an earlier post, you said something along the lines of AC is the same distance from Philly as a PA county is from Baltimore, and so that county should be part of the Baltimore/DC area, but that is not how it works. Sometimes, distance does not even matter when deciding metro region boundaries. This whole idea is not as rigid as you think it is. A lot of regional boundaries are based on history and culture more than anything else. It doesn't matter that the East Coast is split into north and south about evenly around Maryland, and therefore MD should count as the northeast like you think it should... that's not how it works. You seem to want to split the country into even regions based on drawing lines across the map, but again - not how it works.

And though the federal government is not always right nor can it always be trusted, it does clearly delineate the regions in the US Census and nothing south of NJ and PA is considered northeastern to our federal government... that about decides it for me.

I don't believe MD/DE are exactly southern (anymore) but I also don't believe they are northeastern. This is why mid-Atlantic suits them well.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:24 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 4 days ago)
 
620 posts, read 689,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
No, Mercer County is currently part of the NY region as it's within either NYC's MSA or CSA, I get confused between the two and cannot look it up right now.

In an earlier post, you said something along the lines of AC is the same distance from Philly as a PA county is from Baltimore, and so that county should be part of the Baltimore/DC area, but that is not how it works. Sometimes, distance does not even matter when deciding metro region boundaries. This whole idea is not as rigid as you think it is. A lot of regional boundaries are based on history and culture more than anything else. It doesn't matter that the East Coast is split into north and south about evenly around Maryland, and therefore MD should count as the northeast like you think it should... that's not how it works. You seem to want to split the country into even regions based on drawing lines across the map, but again - not how it works.

And though the federal government is not always right nor can it always be trusted, it does clearly delineate the regions in the US Census and nothing south of NJ and PA is considered northeastern to our federal government... that about decides it for me.

I don't believe MD/DE are exactly southern (anymore) but I also don't believe they are northeastern. This is why mid-Atlantic suits them well.
The problem is that if you exclude Delaware from the original Northeast, while Delaware was a middle colony and used to be part of Pennsylvania, another northeastern state, then the map of the Northeast would look like the Flintstones, because of MD/PA border going up through the 12 mile circle, but making a big drop through the Delaware Bay and into the ocean. Not a good dividing line between the North and the South. New Jersey used to be part of New York and was a middle colony, yet both NY and NJ are still northeastern states. So Delaware has been a Northeastern state since Delaware's secession from PA. The northernmost part of Delaware reaches just north of MD/PA border, while most of Delaware is in the same latitude as the southern parts of New Jersey. Even Delaware owns pieces of land on the NJ side of the Delaware River.

Last edited by muppethammer26; 07-21-2014 at 08:35 PM..
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