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So, Bajan, in your impassioned reply to my recent post, I still never got a response to this:
For the 2nd time, no response. OK. I guess I'll just leave it that I disagree with you, and you are incapable of "getting it." Cheers!
LOL. And what do you expect me to say to that? "We disagree!"
If you can't agree that Maryland was once a southern state, then we're not even in the same universe, let alone the same ballpark. That tends to be the one area of agreement among everyone no matter what side of the debate they're on.
Then it really comes down to whether a state (or city) can simply flip from being southern to "northeastern." Maybe. The argument would be stronger if, say, 84% of the migrants to the DC area were coming from northern states. But that's not the case. The number of southern migrants is larger than the number of Northeastern and Midwestern migrants combined.
So are all of those southerners to the state now northerners (even though they outnumber "northerners)? That makes little sense to me.
Maryland pretty much falls into the same category as South Florida to me. A southern state that doesn't have much southern culture nowadays.
I remember an African American woman also mentioned the same thing to me about 20 years ago.
Do you think that the DC metro area is more racist today than NYC?
I'm not black, but my guess today is the DC metro is less racist. The large black middle-class population in much of the DC Metro helps erase some negative stereotypes, and being much more of a transplant area erases some of the old tensions. Much of the older "white ethnic" population isn't exactly racially progressive, and my take on the old region is it's a bit more stuck in the past than DC. No, that doesn't mean that this makes DC "northern", in fact some of the differences described with NYC are typically distinctive Northeastern traits.
I did hear mild southern accents among some older whites in the Maryland side of the DC area. Mild enough someone from the south wouldn't even pick up on it. But anyone from NY State or New England would find it very obvious. No, you can't hear that in Philly. And the black population in DC / Maryland sounds much more southern than NY / New England. I didn't feel like I was in the south, but some of things didn't feel like anywhere else in the Northeast I've been to.
I see the western Boundry of the NE as the line between textile and Steel mills so between Syracuse and Rochester NY, and south to the Mason-Dixon Line then it is the South.
Baltimore has a long history of steel mills. Sparrows Point is well-known for steelmaking and shipbuilding.
I have no idea what there is to respond to in that quoted post.
So, to repeat, here's the post I was referring to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine
I get that you feel this way. If you can get that I don't, then we're done here.
Seems pretty clear to me, but I'll clarify in a way you'll perhaps understand: I get that he see things as he does. I was just inquiring if he could envision that I can look at the same set of circumstances and come to a different conclusion. I've asked twice if he could. Since he's chosen not to respond either time, I'm simply concluding he can't embrace that reality. So be it.
My point is that I see views on this topic as subjective, not absolute. It seems others differ. To me, I am open to posts on this topic that start with: "It's my opinion that . . . because . . . " I have an issue with those that start with: "This is the way it is and here's why." So as I've said once or twice earlier in this thread, therein lies the rub.
That said, I'm even OK if you don't get it. Cheers!
Nyc might as well be the south today with all the police brutality but it is still the north geographically, so the same goes for Maryland and DC but the opposite. They are still in the south, even tho it is the northern edge of the south (upper south), no matter how blue it is. That doesn't really matter. The capital of America was put in the south on purpose so it is still the south, not quite the northeast.
Delaware is the north, mostly because of the twelve mile circle, so really only Wilmington but the whole state gets a pass. It is the middle of the east coast and the border between both regions.
Why are people from Maryland and dc trying to claim the northeast now, even tho geographically they're not?
What's wrong with being southern if that's where you are from? You obviously don't have to be all the way in dixie to be from the south, right?
Now Virginia is a whole other story. That is in Dixie, NOVA not as much but still part of a former rebel state.
While here's been a lot of heat, there are only 1 or 2 posters who are making the most fervent arguments that these states are southern (I'm not counting "dollar sign"). These posters are located in NY and above. Conversely, those who feel these states trend northeastern are those who live in them or near them (this includes most of the Philly posters, interestingly enough). As I see things, it seems these people know these two states best. Finally, I'm not sure I recall any poster in this thread who hails from the Deep South stepping up and posting their opinion that MD and DE are southern and have no business being lumped in with the northeast.
Yes, exactly. a couple of guys on City Data vs. most people in real life who live in the region.
The idea that Maryland is the south is really a laughable notion that is pushed only by a minority with an agenda. I like the south a lot, but I acknowledge that Maryland simply isn't part of it. You really have to stretch arguments *cough BajanYankee cough* and look at things from a biased view to make it seem that way. I would love to say "Maryland is in the south". I want to say that. I really would, but I can't because it's a lie. If you step back and look at things objectively it's part of the northeast. People in Maryland and Delaware have more in common with southern Jersey, the Philly area, and York than Winchester, Lynchburg, or Chartlottesville. I think if someone is actually familiar with Philadelphia (not the New york-accented guys on TV), south Jersey, and central PA, they would see that there is more to the northeast than just this New England-New York City dynamic. This lower part of the northeast is distinct from further north. Is it the south? No, it's still the northeast, but it does not fit into the narrow New England-New York City definition that some have. Just like the south has different parts (Virginia is very different from Louisiana) the north does too, not just the New England-New York City dynamic.
Let me ask you this. Do you really think a guy from Towson goes to Lancaster, Harrisburg, Buffalo, or Syracuse, and feels more out of place than in Roanoke, Asheville, or Charleston? That is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that. I mean are you actually familiar with the region? Because there is an actual north/south cultural divide that occurs around DC, and more specifically just south of it's Virginia suburbs. Take a drive starting in Harrisburg, stop in Frederick, and make your way to Chartlottesville. I guarantee that if you make that trip and interact with the locals, you will never confuse Maryland for being southern again. I don't know how else to explain that. Yet there are the same handful of posters (I can count on hand) who seem determined to convince everyone that this is not the case. Obviously I'm not going to convince these few, but it is really just getting ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei
I did hear mild southern accents among some older whites in the Maryland side of the DC area. Mild enough someone from the south wouldn't even pick up on it. But anyone from NY State or New England would find it very obvious. No, you can't hear that in Philly.
The Maryland side of the DC suburbs isn't Maryland as a whole. It is filled with transplants. Those older whites could easily be transplants. Native Marylanders in that area have a midland accent, with the exception a small minority on the lower eastern shore in places like Worcester county. The Baltimore accent is extremely similar to the Philadelphia accent, not the southern accent in Virginia. Go to regular Maryland towns like Ellicott City and the natives have that unique accent that is shared with those in central PA, not south in Virginia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP
Why are people from Maryland and dc trying to claim the northeast now, even tho geographically they're not?
What's wrong with being southern if that's where you are from? You obviously don't have to be all the way in dixie to be from the south, right?
Have you looked at a map lately? Maryland geographically is well into the northeast of the US. Even tVirginia is geographically in the US Northeast. What you are saying is the equivalent of claiming that Medford, Oregon is in the southwest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP
What's wrong with being southern if that's where you are from? You obviously don't have to be all the way in dixie to be from the south, right?
Nope. I would love to say I'm from the south. But we aren't. You are the one trying to say we are something we aren't. While it's flattering, it just isn't true. Maryland is the northeast, for better or worse.
I'm not black, but my guess today is the DC metro is less racist. The large black middle-class population in much of the DC Metro helps erase some negative stereotypes, and being much more of a transplant area erases some of the old tensions. Much of the older "white ethnic" population isn't exactly racially progressive, and my take on the old region is it's a bit more stuck in the past than DC. No, that doesn't mean that this makes DC "northern", in fact some of the differences described with NYC are typically distinctive Northeastern traits.
Exactly.
The DC area is mostly transplants from every reach of the country. The Hispanic, Asian and African populations are a recent phenomenon (since around the late 80s/early 90s). The whites (and Blacks for that matter) tend to be more affluent and educated with more liberal views. You don't have any of the entrenched ethnic lines of northeastern cities.
In this sense, it reminds me most of Atlanta.
And yes, I agree that the northeast is "a bit more stuck in the past." If you look at the construction crews and sanitation workers for the city, many are Irish and Italian (and some West Indian) who have passed down jobs through the generations. The unions, for a long time in Philadelphia, were based around ethnic kinship, and largely excluded Blacks and Puerto Ricans (which led to a lot of animosity among these groups). That's sort of a hallmark of these cities.
Yes, exactly. a couple of guys on City Data vs. most people in real life who live in the region.
I lived in the region. I mean, how many people participating in this thread consistently post in the DC or Maryland subforums? I know as much about the region as anyone on here, which is why I'm always posting in the DC forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj
You really have to stretch arguments *cough BajanYankee cough* and look at things from a biased view to make it seem that way.
First, my argument was that Maryland isn't the Northeast. That's what this thread about anyway. I've already stated the reasons why I believe that to be the case.
Second, do you believe that South Florida is southern?
Third, it's not that much of a stretch to conclude that Maryland is southern considering that it was historically a southern state and that 40% of respondents in a focus poll responded that it was a southern state.
Last edited by BajanYankee; 08-06-2014 at 12:06 PM..
I did hear mild southern accents among some older whites in the Maryland side of the DC area. Mild enough someone from the south wouldn't even pick up on it. But anyone from NY State or New England would find it very obvious. No, you can't hear that in Philly. And the black population in DC / Maryland sounds much more southern than NY / New England. I didn't feel like I was in the south, but some of things didn't feel like anywhere else in the Northeast I've been to.
You would have to travel out to the more distant parts of Calvert, Charles and Anne Arundel to find working-class Whites who are multi-generational Marylanders. In southern Maryland, you can hear a slight southern accent by sitting in the lot at the Rita's on Leonardtown Road for a little while. Or if you go into the Walmart on Highway 301. Or if you go into the Huntingtown Town Center off Route 4. In Bowie, you hear it a bit with some of the old timers who eat at places like Rip's. In southern Anne Arundel, you will also hear a bit of it. It's died down in recent years now that Calvert and Charles have so many transplants.
One of the best places to go to hear it is the Wharf down in Southwest DC. There you have a lot of white guys who come into DC from southern and eastern Maryland.
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