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Old 08-06-2014, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
8,483 posts, read 10,490,001 times
Reputation: 5401

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If rowhouses made cities northern, then there was no way DC and Baltimore could have ever been southern in the first place. LOL.

The only thing that's changed about the cities since the 1970s is the transplants. And as the Census data shows, most of them are from the South.
Historically they were more closer to being border cities than true Southern cities. I don't think it was so much of the transplants changing the culture of DC but more of the transplants assimilating into the culture of Washington DC from the Whites and Blacks that already lived there.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:34 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,813,058 times
Reputation: 361
I have been saying this All the time that the clown characters on here swearing that Maryland not being part of the south. This is part of the ignorant old school segregated good ol boy mindset that are still bitter about the he civil war and the fact that they cant control people of color like they did 60 years ago. They are using the Maryland aint Southern argument as a sign of childish cry babying because most parts of the deep south is irrelevent today and the state of Maryland carries the most powerful city in the Nation. To say that they dont dislike Maryland for their reasoning for segregating the state of Maryland away from the rest of the South is 1000% pure Bull Sh-- and they know it or else they would not be arguing their support of Texas being part of the South when it is really Southwestern/Mexican.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
The states in debate in this thread, as in similar threads in the past, are Maryland and to a lesser extent Delaware. While here's been a lot of heat, there are only 1 or 2 posters who are making the most fervent arguments that these states are southern (I'm not counting "dollar sign"). These posters are located in NY and above. Conversely, those who feel these states trend northeastern are those who live in them or near them (this includes most of the Philly posters, interestingly enough). As I see things, it seems these people know these two states best. Finally, I'm not sure I recall any poster in this thread who hails from the Deep South stepping up and posting their opinion that MD and DE are southern and have no business being lumped in with the northeast.

I just find this some interesting data to take into consideration. To me, it adds further credence to a premsie I floated earlier in this thread:

Last edited by $mk8795; 08-06-2014 at 05:43 PM..
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:40 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,813,058 times
Reputation: 361
Whatever dude, Virginia and North Carolina are Northern states too....

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Yes, exactly. a couple of guys on City Data vs. most people in real life who live in the region.

The idea that Maryland is the south is really a laughable notion that is pushed only by a minority with an agenda. I like the south a lot, but I acknowledge that Maryland simply isn't part of it. You really have to stretch arguments *cough BajanYankee cough* and look at things from a biased view to make it seem that way. I would love to say "Maryland is in the south". I want to say that. I really would, but I can't because it's a lie. If you step back and look at things objectively it's part of the northeast. People in Maryland and Delaware have more in common with southern Jersey, the Philly area, and York than Winchester, Lynchburg, or Chartlottesville. I think if someone is actually familiar with Philadelphia (not the New york-accented guys on TV), south Jersey, and central PA, they would see that there is more to the northeast than just this New England-New York City dynamic. This lower part of the northeast is distinct from further north. Is it the south? No, it's still the northeast, but it does not fit into the narrow New England-New York City definition that some have. Just like the south has different parts (Virginia is very different from Louisiana) the north does too, not just the New England-New York City dynamic.

Let me ask you this. Do you really think a guy from Towson goes to Lancaster, Harrisburg, Buffalo, or Syracuse, and feels more out of place than in Roanoke, Asheville, or Charleston? That is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that. I mean are you actually familiar with the region? Because there is an actual north/south cultural divide that occurs around DC, and more specifically just south of it's Virginia suburbs. Take a drive starting in Harrisburg, stop in Frederick, and make your way to Chartlottesville. I guarantee that if you make that trip and interact with the locals, you will never confuse Maryland for being southern again. I don't know how else to explain that. Yet there are the same handful of posters (I can count on hand) who seem determined to convince everyone that this is not the case. Obviously I'm not going to convince these few, but it is really just getting ridiculous.



The Maryland side of the DC suburbs isn't Maryland as a whole. It is filled with transplants. Those older whites could easily be transplants. Native Marylanders in that area have a midland accent, with the exception a small minority on the lower eastern shore in places like Worcester county. The Baltimore accent is extremely similar to the Philadelphia accent, not the southern accent in Virginia. Go to regular Maryland towns like Ellicott City and the natives have that unique accent that is shared with those in central PA, not south in Virginia.



Have you looked at a map lately? Maryland geographically is well into the northeast of the US. Even tVirginia is geographically in the US Northeast. What you are saying is the equivalent of claiming that Medford, Oregon is in the southwest.



Nope. I would love to say I'm from the south. But we aren't. You are the one trying to say we are something we aren't. While it's flattering, it just isn't true. Maryland is the northeast, for better or worse.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:42 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 9,575,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
The states in debate in this thread, as in similar threads in the past, are Maryland and to a lesser extent Delaware. While here's been a lot of heat, there are only 1 or 2 posters who are making the most fervent arguments that these states are southern (I'm not counting "dollar sign"). These posters are located in NY and above. Conversely, those who feel these states trend northeastern are those who live in them or near them (this includes most of the Philly posters, interestingly enough). As I see things, it seems these people know these two states best. Finally, I'm not sure I recall any poster in this thread who hails from the Deep South stepping up and posting their opinion that MD and DE are southern and have no business being lumped in with the northeast.

I just find this some interesting data to take into consideration. To me, it adds further credence to a premsie I floated earlier in this thread:
Or because there is not a line but a gradient so Someone would say Maryland is Southern if they are from New England because Culturally, and climatologically Gloucester, MA is much more different from Annapolis, MD than Cape May is from Annapolis.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:46 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,813,058 times
Reputation: 361
North Carolina is a Northern State too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
You lived in DC, not Towson, not Easton or Frederick, not Baltimore, not Annapolis or Ellicott City. I dont doubt you are familiar with DC. But with Maryland, Pennsylvania, southern Jersey and Delaware? No, you don't sound acquainted at all. I don't blame you though. Most outsiders go straight to DC which is the hotspot. They have less interest in "overlooked" cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore, let alone the actual towns in the region where the majority of the population lives. We get people like that heading to DC all the time. Do they know Maryland? No. Many of them seem to think that DC is Maryland, which it is not.



You aren't familiar with the region, you are familiar with DC. You continually talk about DC as if it is part of Maryland. It's suburbs make up a part of Maryland, but DC is not Maryland. Your views on Maryland's place come from agenda-driven historical anecdotes that you have carefully cherry picked.

For example you say that Maryland had slavery in 1860, but overlook the fact that they also had the largest free black population in country, and Baltimore had the largest free black population of any American city.

You say that Maryland blacks were 50% enslaved, but you conveniently overlook that 50% of Maryland blacks were free, which is totally incomparable to any southern state. The next closest was Virginia at what? Less than 10%?

You overlook that Maryland had little over 10% of it's population as slaves while all southern states had a slave populations of AT LEAST 30%. You overlook the fact that MAryland had the second highest percentage of free blacks as a percentage of it's population after Delaware.

Just one example Bajan Yankee where you only pull out the one part that serves your argument and overlook the other several points that counter it. Either way, Bajan Yankee, slavery was a very long time ago and doesn't decide what states are northeastern in 2014. Is it really that decisive of an issue in 2014 that we need to continually discuss it as if it is of critical importance?



This conversation isn't about Florida. Nothing of be value will be achieved by making off topic comparisons to South Florida.



The Shelton Reed And in that same study around 10% of people from Michigan, Utah, Illinois, Ohio, and Arizona claimed to be southerns.

And if 40% of Marylander's claimed to be southern doesn't that mean that 60% claimed not to be southern?

Oh and here's another poll where only 6% of people thought Maryland is southern.

Anyways I think that all that needs to be said has been said. I would love to say "I'm a southerner" but looking at it objectively and without an agenda I acknowledge that it is definetely the northeast like Philadelphia, central PA, southern Jersey, and Delaware. This should be clear to anyone who is actually familiar with the region (not just DC). Take that drive down to Charlottesville or Asheville and tell me with a straight face that Maryland is closer to that than Allentown or Ithaca.



You seem to keep on missing the part where I repeatedly state I would prefer to be a southerner. But we aren't. So the "you are trying to be northeastern" line is a total cop out. Sorry, but I would prefer to be southeastern. But I'm not going to lie and say we have more in common with people in Durham compared to Pittsburgh. And hate to burst your bubble but most in Philadelphia laugh at the notion that Maryland and Delaware are the south. The only time I come across this is when I get on City Data and see the same handful of people pushing their agenda.

And take another look at that map. The geographic line between north and south in the US lies around the Virginia/NC border. The 39 degrees logic is nonsense that no one says. Trace from Miami to Maine and tell me where the middle is. It's at least a state below Maryland. Seems blatantly obvious.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:57 PM
 
2,331 posts, read 3,813,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
Or because there is not a line but a gradient so Someone would say Maryland is Southern if they are from New England because Culturally, and climatologically Gloucester, MA is much more different from Annapolis, MD than Cape May is from Annapolis.
Annapolis have more in common with Charleston, SC and Savannah, GA
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,308 posts, read 26,314,799 times
Reputation: 11772
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Historically they were more closer to being border cities than true Southern cities.
There's no disputing they were southern cities. The historical record makes this pretty clear.

Quote:
Baltimore was a southern city, below the Mason-Dixon line; two years later, a group of whites and blacks would be arrested for playing tennis together in Druid Hill Park.
Jackie Robinson: A Biography - Arnold Rampersad - Google Books

Quote:
Baltimore once was clearly a Southern city - with all of the pride of the South and all its prejudices.
Is Baltimore A Southern City | Are we Northern? Southern? Yes. - Baltimore Sun

Quote:
The Baltimore of the 40s and 50s was a city of gentility, slow living, and racial segregation. As in other Southern cities of the time, there were many things black people could not do. They couldn't try on clothes at many shops downtown. They couldn't eat in certain restaurants and go to certain movie theaters.
Quote:
"It [Washington] was Southern, and you learned that very quickly," she says. "I don't mean that in a negative way.
Sleepy, Southern And Segregated: What D.C. Was Like In '63 : NPR

D.C. area and Dixie drifting farther and farther apart

Is D.C. Still a Southern Town? | NBC4 Washington

Not much dispute about that. The Redskins' fight song used to say "Fight for old Dixie!" which was later changed to "Fight for Old DC!" And as I've already noted, Maryland was a founding member of both the Southern Legislative Conference and the Southern Governors Association. It doesn't make sense to engage in historical revisionism in the absence of any type or reliable, historical evidence to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I don't think it was so much of the transplants changing the culture of DC but more of the transplants assimilating into the culture of Washington DC from the Whites and Blacks that already lived there.
Assimilating into the southern culture that was already there?
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Old 08-06-2014, 07:54 PM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,506,348 times
Reputation: 3411
You don't have to get in your feelings about it.
Just tell me where the southeast begins now.
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Old 08-06-2014, 08:28 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,142,742 times
Reputation: 5743
Most know this, but for those who may be new, please don't waste your time nor keyboard ink replying to this $mk character. This poster shows up periodically -- and has for years -- trying to provoke a response by the most outlandish comments and ranting...which is obviously calculated to get attention. That is all it is.

Pay no attention to the person, and (whoever it is) will go away, finally. To respond simply eggs it on. Of course, I would recommend not "officially" put the person on ignore, as that might be construed as giving the lunacy of the posts some actual respect. Instead, just wave it off and ignore them like you would an irritating song on the radio.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:31 AM
 
774 posts, read 1,699,579 times
Reputation: 681
You seem to keep on missing the part where I repeatedly state I would prefer to be a southerner. But we aren't. So the "you are trying to be northeastern" line is a total cop out. Sorry, but I would prefer to be southeastern.


Just curious, but why would you prefer to be a Southerner? Is it because of the reputation of Southerners as warm friendly people? I find that almost all people, if given a choice, would rather identify as Southerners and not Northerners.
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