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Old 08-07-2014, 11:45 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Boston must've surpassed Baltimore in population pretty recent. Baltimore was always larger than Boston and DC for that matter.
Boston has and had smaller city limits. By metropiltan population, Boston has always been larger.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
While this is true, part of it is because southern cities tend to have broader city limits. Hence a lot of areas which would be in suburban towns in the Northeast are within the city proper in the Southeast.
Southern cities can have rowhouses. Richmond has rowhouses. Baltimore has rowhouses. DC has rowhouses.

Gwilly is making this post-facto rule that rowhouses rule out southerness when the historical record shows that clearly wasn't the case. If you watch WETA's Washington in the 70s, there are several interviews with notable Washingtonians such as Walter Washington (first mayor under Home Rule), Jim Vance (Channel 4), Donnie Simpson (WPGC), Connie Chung, Gwen Ifill, Marion Barry, Chuck Brown and Maury Povich who talk about it being a southern city.

The description of the program reads:

Quote:
Hop into the WETA time machine and journey back to Washington DC during the 1960s and 1970s, a time of immense social and political change that transformed the city from a sleepy Southern town to a world class city.
The Groovy History of DC | Programmer's Choice

So yeah, it was southern. So that means southern cities can and do have rowhouses. I mean, Alexandria has a lot of rowhouses, and the movie Remember the Titans was based on real life events there. That was absolutely southern.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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When most people think of the sit-ins during the Civil Rights Movement, they immediately think of Greensboro, NC, not realizing that the first sit-in was actually staged in Baltimore at Read's Drugstore (according to the NAACP).

Here are some accounts from civil rights activists from the time:

Quote:
In the 1940s and 1950s, when I was growing up there, Baltimore was a segregated city. All public bathrooms and drinking fountains were marked "Colored" or "White," and most restaurants allowed black people to buy food and carry it out, but not to be seated in the restaurant.
Quote:
In the months that followed, CIG moved its sit-ins to the towns of Cambridge, Crisfield, Chestertown, and Easton on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, an area that was even more segregated than Baltimore. For these "freedom rides" we were joined by students from outside the Baltimore area, and our group now numbered in the hundreds.
Veterans of the Civil Rights Movement -- A Baltimore Girl Sits In

In 1963, the Northwood Theater in Baltimore ended its "Colored" policy where Blacks were forced to sit in the balcony.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,859 posts, read 7,806,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
"Baltimore once was clearly a Southern city - with all of the pride of the South and all its prejudices," wrote Carl Schoettler, an Evening Sun reporter, in 1977."

Is Baltimore A Southern City | Are we Northern? Southern? Yes. - Baltimore Sun
Opps. You forgot the next and final words of the article:

"But sometime after World War II the Southern-ness of Baltimore began thinning out like the quality of rye whiskey. Baltimore was becoming more and more like any other city on the Eastern seaboard. North-eastern, at that," he wrote.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Here are some photos of civil rights events in Maryland and the DC area (which my father participated in when he was a student there).

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8493/8...c40aa82f_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8497/8...a8360a71_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8525/8...9755bf02bb.jpg

http://www.nps.gov/glec/historycultu...rs_small_1.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8085/...df531617df.jpg
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:42 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Opps. You forgot the next and final words of the article:

"But sometime after World War II the Southern-ness of Baltimore began thinning out like the quality of rye whiskey. Baltimore was becoming more and more like any other city on the Eastern seaboard. North-eastern, at that," he wrote.
His argument was that Baltimore was never a true southern city. Most people can agree that it was definitely a true southern city. What it is now is subject to debate.

Is Baltimore an Northeastern city?

But oops, a majority of people in the Baltimore forum said that it's not a northeastern city. That's another thing nobody here cares to address.

The final words of the artcle were actually...

Quote:
The department added at the end: "Most Marylanders find it difficult to answer the question. Some consider themselves Southerners; others as Northerners. Perhaps the truth lives between the extremes."
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:48 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,989,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
It's amusing, though not really funny, that everyone is paying attention to the black guy on the counter rather than the white guy with a Nazi armband.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:53 PM
 
12,698 posts, read 10,514,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
It's amusing, though not really funny, that everyone is paying attention to the black guy on the counter rather than the white guy with a Nazi armband.
Looking at it with today's moral views, yes, but back then not at all. No one batted an eye at that type of superiority - it IS the basis of racism.

What's also amusing in a similar way is my grandpa's words for black people he still uses today. He does not mean to be insulting and says them innocently, but he still says "coloreds" and much more rarely, "negroes." It's just how he grew up, what he is more used to. But hearing him talk that way can be like stepping back in time.
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,859 posts, read 7,806,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
His argument was that Baltimore was never a true southern city. Most people can agree that it was definitely a true southern city. What it is now is subject to debate.

Is Baltimore an Northeastern city?

But oops, a majority of people in the Baltimore forum said that it's not a northeastern city. That's another thing nobody here cares to address.
Because CD is reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post

The final words of the artcle were actually...
You must see a different version of your link than I do (Is Baltimore A Southern City | Are we Northern? Southern? Yes. - Baltimore Sun). The final words in my link are: "But sometime after World War II the Southern-ness of Baltimore began thinning out like the quality of rye whiskey. Baltimore was becoming more and more like any other city on the Eastern seaboard. North-eastern, at that," he wrote.

Regardless, I just find it interesting how you didn't include this fellow's full quote in your earlier post.

Polls of locals and the many articles and links you've posted by and about Marylanders pretty much state that MD, as seen through the eyes of locals, has qualities of both north and south. Big news flash, huh? It seems to me that you have adopted the single drop theory: If there is any trace of southernness, then the whole state is southern. OK. Fine. I tend to see it more through the eyes of those who see more northern traits in the state.

As I said earlier I can see why you see it that way given the lenses you look through, which relies heavily on the past. I look through different lenses however, and come up with a different view. I've been to all 50 states. I've lived in DE (north and south), MD, VA (southwest VA and Tidewater) and PA. I also have lots of relatives in both Baltimore and the Eastern Shore. So I have a lot of hands-on personal insight into the Mid-Atlantic region. Further, I have lived in Massachusetts, Missouri and Texas, so I have seen the mid-Atltanctic from those distant angles as well. You can go on and on with quotes, equally divided polls, slaves, secession votes and Jim Crow as much as you want. I am a student of modern day culture - not what happened 75, 100 or 200 years ago. And I feel MD is the farthest south of the northeasrn states.

Feel free to carry on.
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,252,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Because CD is reality.
Baltimore residents are a reality...much more of a reality than your opinion. I mean, if we want to know about Baltimore, then why wouldn't we go by the views of the actual people that live there? Would you go to the NYC forum, ask about our view of the city, and then dismiss those views because you don't agree with them?

Trust, if the poll were reversed, then you would be harping all over it. But it's not, and it damages your argument, so you simply dismiss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
You must see a different version of your link than I do.
It's called "clicking over to the next page."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Regardless, I just find it interesting how you didn't include this fellow's full quote in your earlier post.
The quote was provided to refute the non-sensical claim that Baltimore was never a true southern city. It was one of four separate quotes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Polls of locals and the many articles and links you've posted by and about Marylanders pretty much state that MD, as seen through the eyes of locals, has qualities of both north and south. Big news flash, huh? It seems to me that you have adopted the single drop theory: If there is any trace of southernness, then the whole state is southern. OK. Fine.
That's not what I said. I said that it wasn't northeastern. Not sure how many times I gotta keep repeating the same ish. God damn, people really hate any association with anything southern. I have NEVER heard anybody fight against being associated with NYC or Boston. Wonder why that is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
As I said earlier I can see why you see it that way given the lenses you look through, which relies heavily on the past.
I view DC and Maryland through my own lens. I mean, the street I own a house on, the neighbors I talk to, are not "northeastern" by any stretch of the imagination. Nothing "northeastern" about North Capitol Street, Benning Road, Nannie Helen Burroughs, Florida Avenue, Ivy City, Kenilworth, River Terrace, Deanwood, the Big Lots on Rhode Island, Kenny's BBQ, Best Cuts on Georgia, Horace and Dickie's, etc. It has a completely different vibe from Philly, Brooklyn, Providence, Syracuse or any other northeastern city.

And yes, history is important because these cities wouldn't be what they are today without it. If you spend all of your day eating at Estadio, Ted's Bulletin, and other new swanky restaurants along 14th Street (which are basically brand new anyway), then you won't see that. But if you are able to pull yourself away from Amusement World for just a moment and explore every nook and corner of the region, then you might reach a different conclusion.
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