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Old 08-13-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Questionnaire to determine if a state is part of the Northeast

1. Is the state located entirely east of the Mississippi River? If the answer is 'yes,' then continue to the next question. If the answer is 'no,' then it's not part of the Northeast.

2. Does the state touch the Mississippi River? If the answer is 'no,' then continue to the next question. If the answer is 'yes,' then it's not part of the Northeast.

3. Did the state fight for the Union in the Civil War? If the answer is 'yes,' then continue to the next question. If the answer is 'no,' then it's not part of the Northeast.

4. Does the state touch the Atlantic Ocean? If the answer is 'yes,' then it is part of the Northeast. If the answer is 'no,' then continue to the next question.

5. Does at least part of the state have a watershed that empties directly into the Atlantic Ocean? If the answer is 'yes,' then it is part of the Northeast. If the answer is 'no,' then it's not part of the Northeast.

If the answer is 'yes' for questions #1, #3, #4 and #5, and 'no' for question #2, then the state is absolutely part of the Northeast. If even one of the answers is different, then I'm sorry, but the state is not part of the Northeast. For those states that are part of the Northeast, the following are bonus credentials for their Northeasternness:

1. It was one of the 13 original colonies.

2. It borders Canada.

3. It's located north or east of the Mason-Dixon Line.

4. It was a flashpoint for the French and Indian War and/or the American Revolution.

5. It's a Commonwealth.

6. It has at least one Ivy League University.

7. It's far enough east to bear the brunt of nor'easters during the winter months.

I hope this makes the definition of the Northeast clear once and for all.
Good idea Gnutella. Although I do not get the necessity of question two?
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Could we say that most Northeastern states/cities have these in common?

-Established by English Protestants in 17th Century (applies to all of the original colonies except NY, MD and GA)

-Became prinicpal centers of finance, shipping, trade and intellectual life during 18th Century

-Urban centers began to industrialize during early part of 19th Century

-Slavery becomes moribund institution by the early 19th Century

-Voted for Lincoln in Election of 1860.

-Massive waves of European immigration. Catholics begin to outnumber Protestants in many urban centers

-Small black populations prior to 20th Century. AA populations dramatically increase after WWI

-De jure racial segregation ends by late 19th/early 20th century

-Deindustrialization. Slow to stagnant population growth from 1950 onward
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:05 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Actually we make it much simpler then that.

Traditional Northeast
1. If the state is north and/or east of the Mason-Dixon Line its in the Northeast

Modern Northeast
1. If the state is north and/or east of the Mason-Dixon Line its in the Northeast
2. If the state is called Maryland its in the Northeast

Mason
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,259 posts, read 19,555,335 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Could we say that most Northeastern states/cities have these in common?

-Established by English Protestants in 17th Century (applies to all of the original colonies except NY, MD and GA)

-Became prinicpal centers of finance, shipping, trade and intellectual life during 18th Century

-Urban centers began to industrialize during early part of 19th Century

-Slavery becomes moribund institution by the early 19th Century

-Voted for Lincoln in Election of 1860.

-Massive waves of European immigration. Catholics begin to outnumber Protestants in many urban centers

-Small black populations prior to 20th Century. AA populations dramatically increase after WWI

-De jure racial segregation ends by late 19th/early 20th century

-Deindustrialization. Slow to stagnant population growth from 1950 onward
Most, but not all. These criteria would have worked for the 19th and much of the 20th century. If we were currently living in those times, then they would be important. But in 2014, they are not as relevant geographically or societally.

Nobody cares whether a city had a lot of Italian or Irish immigrants or a big steel industry 100 years ago. Those things have little relevance anymore.

What matters to most in the present day are overall factors like urban infrastructure, neighborhoods, amenities, walkability, public transportation, connectedness to other cities, cost of living, educational level, jobs and incomes, diversity, political affiliation, outdoor activities, etc.

The divisions occur along these lines nowadays - that is, in 2014 like I mentioned.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 08-13-2014 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:24 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Agreed. And even if they weren't established by English protestants, English Protestants dominated or at least were the majority by the mid 18th century. Except for maybe the first four it could also apply to much of the Midwest. But the first four also don't apply to western NY and western PA. There's a difference IMO between places settled in colonial times, and those that came later. My area (interior New England) it's not hard to find 18th century homes scattered in rural areas. In the Finger Lakes of NY, it was mostly primitive farmsteads until 1800 or so. Coastal New England has towns that while not that big today, were among the bigger settlements around 1800. For example, Portsmouth and Salem. Albany and the rest of the Hudson Valley is as old as the coastal but further west was settled. Isn't that important culturally, but it does seem that these "newer" areas are a bit less stereotypically Northeastern and have some noteable accent differences and a bit more similarities to the Midwest.

Note that Maryland in urbanization is a transition between south and north. Looking at 1900 stats:

https://www.census.gov/population/ce.../urpop0090.txt

Massachusetts, roughly the same area as Maryland was 86% urban while Maryland only 50%. Maryland is a bit skewed because it has a big city (Washington) just outside its boundary, its urban % would be 60% if DC was part of Maryland. Pennsylvania is lower, at 54% but it has a lot more rural land to the west. Rhode Island was 88% urban, Delaware only 46%. But Virginia was only 18% urban and most of the south was similar to Virginia. Maryland was an outlier for the south even back then, it was much less rural than any other part of the south and developed and industrialized earlier. The west was more urban the south despite much of the west being just out of the frontier stage. And California was already than every Midwestern state except for Illinois.

Maryland was also a much smaller state population-wise compared to Massachusetts then, while it's only slightly smaller today. Massachusetts feels older.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:26 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
If the answer is 'yes' for questions #1, #3, #4 and #5, and 'no' for question #2, then the state is absolutely part of the Northeast. If even one of the answers is different, then I'm sorry, but the state is not part of the Northeast.
One minor correction: Answering 'no' to question #4 does not necessarily preclude a state from being part of the Northeast, which means that the only necessary answers are 'yes' to questions #1, #3 and #5, and 'no' to question #2. Just thought I'd make that correction before anybody tries to use it against me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Agreed. And even if they weren't established by English protestants, English Protestants dominated or at least were the majority by the mid 18th century. Except for maybe the first four it could also apply to much of the Midwest. But the first four also don't apply to western NY and western PA.
I don't know about Buffalo or Rochester, but Pittsburgh was incorporated in 1771, which is during colonial times, and differentiates it from the major cities to the west, which were all incorporated after 1800.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Here's the logic behind the questionnaire...

3. Did the state fight for the Union in the Civil War? If the answer is 'yes,' then continue to the next question. If the answer is 'no,' then it's not part of the Northeast.
3. Answering 'no' to question #3 eliminates Alabama, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Virginia, which leaves Connecticut, Delaware, Indiana, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and West Virginia still eligible.


No, it does not make West Virginia still eligible. Most of West Virginia is made up of counties that voted for the Confederacy with the rest of Virginia, about 2/3's of the state. Though half of West Virginia's soldiers were Union, the other half was Confederate. It is the only border state that did not send most of its men to the Union, unlike Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware. East Tennessee sent more soldiers to the Union than West Virginia.

Question 6: Was the state constitution primarily written by ex-Confederate soldiers and politicians? If the answer is yes, then it's not part of the Northeast. This eliminates West Virginia.
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Old 08-13-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
No, it does not make West Virginia still eligible. Most of West Virginia is made up of counties that voted for the Confederacy with the rest of Virginia, about 2/3's of the state. Though half of West Virginia's soldiers were Union, the other half was Confederate. It is the only border state that did not send most of its men to the Union, unlike Maryland, Missouri, Kentucky and Delaware. East Tennessee sent more soldiers to the Union than West Virginia.

Question 6: Was the state constitution primarily written by ex-Confederate soldiers and politicians? If the answer is yes, then it's not part of the Northeast. This eliminates West Virginia.
[/indent]
West Virginia is half-and-half. The southern portion of the state is part of the interior South. The northern portion of the state is part of the interior Northeast.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia
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Even northern West Virginia is not part of the northeast. It is ridiculous.
You also forgot religion in your arbitrary list of questions.

Mississippi and Alabama Most Protestant States in U.S.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:19 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,137 posts, read 9,911,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Even northern West Virginia is not part of the northeast. It is ridiculous.
You also forgot religion in your arbitrary list of questions.

Mississippi and Alabama Most Protestant States in U.S.
Agreed 100%.

I think people see some overlap in similarities between border areas. But people are forgetting the differences in things like history, government and the environment. New York for instance does not usually allow the destruction of entire mountains like in West Virginia.

Mountaintop removal mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention that almost all sources divide regions by state lines, not this county is in this region but that county is in a different region etc.
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