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Old 08-13-2014, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,584 posts, read 2,507,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Actually we make it much simpler then that.

Traditional Northeast
1. If the state is north and/or east of the Mason-Dixon Line its in the Northeast

Modern Northeast
1. If the state is north and/or east of the Mason-Dixon Line its in the Northeast
2. If the state is called Maryland its in the Northeast

Mason
No sir. Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line and has not been officially recognized as part of the northeast. It may have a cultural divide and north eastern qualities, but that does not qualify it as part of the northeast.

There's a line to be drawn somewhere, that line has been drawn. No number of north easterners in Maryland will make Maryland part of the Northeast just like no number of northerners in Florida will make Florida part of the north.

I don't care how cultures change, I don't care how much Maryland is like the northeast, it doesn't matter and never will.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,141 posts, read 9,923,476 times
Reputation: 6429
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
No sir. Maryland is below the Mason-Dixon line and has not been officially recognized as part of the northeast. It may have a cultural divide and north eastern qualities, but that does not qualify it as part of the northeast.

There's a line to be drawn somewhere, that line has been drawn. No number of north easterners in Maryland will make Maryland part of the Northeast just like no number of northerners in Florida will make Florida part of the north.

I don't care how cultures change, I don't care how much Maryland is like the northeast, it doesn't matter and never will.
It doesn't really matter to me whether Maryland is considered Northeast or South. I can see both angles. Historically until at least the late 1800s Maryland was considered Southern. But I think more people tend to say Northeast nowadays.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Most, but not all. These criteria would have worked for the 19th and much of the 20th century. If we were currently living in those times, then they would be important. But in 2014, they are not as relevant geographically or societally.

Nobody cares whether a city had a lot of Italian or Irish immigrants or a big steel industry 100 years ago. Those things have little relevance anymore.
They have quite a bit of relevance. If a place has a different history, and different demographics as a consequence of that history, it's going to feel different. Other than you, who thinks that the Italians and Irish have "little relevance" when talking about the cultural fabric of New York, Boston or Philly? Or even Pittsburgh, Scranton, Providence, or Rochester for that matter?

The last point about deindustrialization is very relevant. Northeastern states (and Midwestern states) haven't grown nearly as fast as southern and western states.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:42 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,307 posts, read 19,591,548 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
They have quite a bit of relevance. If a place has a different history, and different demographics as a consequence of that history, it's going to feel different. Other than you, who thinks that the Italians and Irish have "little relevance" when talking about the cultural fabric of New York, Boston or Philly? Or even Pittsburgh, Scranton, Providence, or Rochester for that matter?

The last point about deindustrialization is very relevant. Northeastern states (and Midwestern states) haven't grown nearly as fast as southern and western states.
Nobody goes to New York, Boston or Philadelphia with the intention of hanging out with a bunch of people of Italian or Irish descent or moves there to do industrial jobs. That is not what defines those cities anymore. Italian and Irish Americans have blended in with the mainstream population by the 2nd and 3rd generation. You would never suspect that Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity were "Irish" if you did not know their last names.

Plus, those cities and their metro areas are much more diverse than that and their economies are dominated by white-collar jobs. Those are the most sought-after careers (kind of like another city that begins with a W and ends in a C).

So no, the relevance of those things is pretty slim in this day and age.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 08-13-2014 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:44 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
It doesn't really matter to me whether Maryland is considered Northeast or South. I can see both angles. Historically until at least the late 1800s Maryland was considered Southern. But I think more people tend to say Northeast nowadays.
That's more like the 1970s or 80s.

Quote:
This dramatic time in area history is brought to life through the memories of notable Washingtonians such as Ben Bradlee, Marion Barry, Patrick Buchanan, Maury Povich and Chuck Brown. Iconic music, archival stills and footage coupled with fascinating insights from those who experienced and shaped the events of the time transport viewers back to a period when the Nation's Capital was transformed from a sleepy Southern town to the bustling world class metropolis we know today.
Washington in the 60s | WETA

This would similarly apply to Baltimore, which was home to the nation's first sit-in. Maryland was a founding member of the Southern Legislative Conference in 1947, so I'm not sure how anyone can say it stopped being southern in the late 1800s.
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Old 08-13-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Nobody goes to New York, Boston or Philadelphia with the intention of hanging out with a bunch of people of Italian or Irish descent or moves there to do industrial jobs. That is not what defines those cities anymore. Italian and Irish Americans have blended in with the mainstream population by the 2nd and 3rd generation.
Why can't you take your personal bias out of this? Just because you only come to New York to see Broadway musicals doesn't mean that the Italians, the Irish, West Indians, Jews, and Puerto Ricans don't comprise a huge chunk of the cultural backbone of this region. Once you grind down to the bone, stripping away the lovely veneer of the Amusement Park City, that's really what you're left with. In DC, once you strip away the yuppie playgrounds, you get to see the real cultural pillars and working-class foundations of the city, which is largely African American with a noticeable southern flavor.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:02 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,226 posts, read 17,984,770 times
Reputation: 14678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Even northern West Virginia is not part of the northeast. It is ridiculous.
You also forgot religion in your arbitrary list of questions.

Mississippi and Alabama Most Protestant States in U.S.
Northern West Virginia is part of the interior Northeast. Weirton, Wheeling and Morgantown are culturally and economically tied to Pittsburgh, not Charleston.

The northernmost point of the West Virginia panhandle is 93 miles from Lake Erie. You gotta be ****ing kidding me if you think that's part of the South.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I think people see some overlap in similarities between border areas. But people are forgetting the differences in things like history, government and the environment. New York for instance does not usually allow the destruction of entire mountains like in West Virginia.
Mountaintop removal mining does not occur in northern West Virginia.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:05 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,749 posts, read 6,162,756 times
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Blacks in DC are a little southern. I'll admit that.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
You would never suspect that Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity were "Irish" if you did not know their last names.
New York City, Philadelphia and Boston all have large Irish suburban enclaves where Irish heritage is prominently displayed. You don't see that in the DC region. And it's not so much about one individual as it is a community. When you're in certain parts of Northeast Philly, and you see start seeing Irish flags and tattoos, you'll know you're in an Irish neighborhood.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Plus, those cities and their metro areas are much more diverse than that and their economies are dominated by white-collar jobs.
Only 34% of White Philadelphians have a college degree. What types of jobs are the other 66% working? Do sheetworkers, plumbers, brick masons, electricians, probation officers, etc. count as "white collar" jobs? Even at the metro level, only 37% of Whites have a college degree. Once you consider the entire population, you're not talking about a white-collar, transplant-dominated Mecca that's similar to what DC is.
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Old 08-13-2014, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,272 posts, read 26,286,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Blacks in DC are a little southern. I'll admit that.
Well, we can't consider them because they don't have any impact on DC culture in 2014.
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