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Old 08-16-2014, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,489 posts, read 16,164,190 times
Reputation: 5637

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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
Because New Jersey and Pennsylvania are the centers of the North
What does this mean? Geographic centers? (there's only one geographic center of a region, though). Cultural centers? Please explain what you mean. And if NJ is the "center" of the North, and could therefore not possibly have any proximity to the south, how could you argue (as you have) that part of NJ has southern traits?

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
and New Jersey has NYC while Pennsylvania has Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. Plus the Pittsburgh metropolitan area spills into Ohio and West Virginia, while the Philadelphia metropolitan area spills into New Jersey and Delaware.
New Jersey does not have NYC. New York has NYC.
Yes, Pennsylvania has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.
These aren't reasons the neighboring states can't be southern states, though.

And if you couldn't classify a state one way or the other because metropolitan areas spill over state lines, you couldn't cut regions anywhere. Have you seen a map of metropolitan areas throughout the country? It's hard to find state boundaries that don't cut through a metropolitan area or two. Fact: If you classify states as being in one region or another, some metro areas are going to spill across the lines. And that's ok. These things are approximate. So where you draw the line, expect there to be exceptions on either side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
Do you think in your opinion New Jersey borders a southern state? How about Pennsylvania?
You created a thread in the NJ forum with this exact title, so you can read my answer there. Forced to pick one or the other, I've always put Maryland and Delaware in the south, but I tend to think of both as borderline states (especially DE) and more than anywhere else on the Atlantic Seaboard, these two states exhibit traits of both regions. In Delaware, for example, the people of New Castle County speak similarly to Philadelphians (wooder, etc.), and driving along semi-rural 2 lane roads north of Route 2, you could very easily imagine you are in southeastern PA. But once you get into Kent and Sussex counties, the accents become more southern sounding and the eastern white pine trees give way to loblolly pine trees. Driving along Route 13 or Route 404 around Georgetown or Harrington or Seaford, you could very easily imagine you are in eastern VA or eastern NC. You enter the state of DE being in the north, and are in the south by the time you leave the state.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:09 AM
 
620 posts, read 687,908 times
Reputation: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by lammius View Post
What does this mean? Geographic centers? (there's only one geographic center of a region, though). Cultural centers? Please explain what you mean. And if NJ is the "center" of the North, and could therefore not possibly have any proximity to the south, how could you argue (as you have) that part of NJ has southern traits?



New Jersey does not have NYC. New York has NYC.
Yes, Pennsylvania has Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.
These aren't reasons the neighboring states can't be southern states, though.

And if you couldn't classify a state one way or the other because metropolitan areas spill over state lines, you couldn't cut regions anywhere. Have you seen a map of metropolitan areas throughout the country? It's hard to find state boundaries that don't cut through a metropolitan area or two. Fact: If you classify states as being in one region or another, some metro areas are going to spill across the lines. And that's ok. These things are approximate. So where you draw the line, expect there to be exceptions on either side.



You created a thread in the NJ forum with this exact title, so you can read my answer there. Forced to pick one or the other, I've always put Maryland and Delaware in the south, but I tend to think of both as borderline states (especially DE) and more than anywhere else on the Atlantic Seaboard, these two states exhibit traits of both regions. In Delaware, for example, the people of New Castle County speak similarly to Philadelphians (wooder, etc.), and driving along semi-rural 2 lane roads north of Route 2, you could very easily imagine you are in southeastern PA. But once you get into Kent and Sussex counties, the accents become more southern sounding and the eastern white pine trees give way to loblolly pine trees. Driving along Route 13 or Route 404 around Georgetown or Harrington or Seaford, you could very easily imagine you are in eastern VA or eastern NC. You enter the state of DE being in the north, and are in the south by the time you leave the state.
So this means New Jersey actually borders a southern state, since you called Delaware southern?
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Derby, CT
3,584 posts, read 2,504,684 times
Reputation: 2927
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
So this means New Jersey actually borders a southern state, since you called Delaware southern?
Yes, and for the millionth time YES!

I don't understand what is so hard to get...
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,266 posts, read 19,560,434 times
Reputation: 13039
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
The Baltimore metro is 29% Black and the Washington area is 26% Black.[/url]
Which means of course that 74% of the Washington DC area residents are not black - a fact that must surprise certain posters here who have a tendency to write off the majority of a population.

Even more surprising is that most of the affluent neighborhoods and suburbs which characterize the dominant lifestyle of people in the Washington DC area have an even smaller black American percentage than that. That is because they are way more diverse. The Washington DC suburbs have ethnic groups and restaurants from all over the world. But someone who comes here and only stays in a socio-economically limited area will not be exposed to much of that.

I thought that much was obvious and didn't needed to be spelled out, but since we keep coming back to the racial demographics topic I thought what the heck.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 08-17-2014 at 01:35 PM..
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:40 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,990 posts, read 41,998,698 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Which means of course that 74% of the Washington DC area residents are not black - a fact that must surprise certain posters here who have a tendency to write off the majority of a population.
Yes, however a higher black % is distinctively southern. Affluence is not limited to the northeast and much of the Northeast isn't affluent.

Quote:
Even more surprising is that most of the affluent neighborhoods and suburbs which characterize the dominant lifestyle of people in the Washington DC area have an even smaller black American percentage than that.
Much of Prince George's County while maybe not affluent is middle-class and wealthier than an average American suburb. It is majority black. There are few similar places in the Northeast, like that, definitely not for an entire county. It is nothing like anywhere else in the Northeast, it's a huge outlier for the Northeast.
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Jersey City
6,489 posts, read 16,164,190 times
Reputation: 5637
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
So this means New Jersey actually borders a southern state, since you called Delaware southern?
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Old 08-17-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,746 posts, read 6,152,030 times
Reputation: 3598
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yes, however a higher black % is distinctively southern. Affluence is not limited to the northeast and much of the Northeast isn't affluent.



Much of Prince George's County while maybe not affluent is middle-class and wealthier than an average American suburb. It is majority black. There are few similar places in the Northeast, like that, definitely not for an entire county. It is nothing like anywhere else in the Northeast, it's a huge outlier for the Northeast.
As for the case in the Baltimore area, most blacks came here came from the Carolinas. For example, 3 of my grandparents are from the Raleigh area, and one is from Virginia. Doesn't that make Baltimore more southern now than prior to the Great Migration?
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:43 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,753,879 times
Reputation: 931
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
Which means of course that 74% of the Washington DC area residents are not black - a fact that must surprise certain posters here who have a tendency to write off the majority of a population.
Are affluent northern white transplants "the majority" in the Washington metro?

Quote:
Even more surprising is that most of the affluent neighborhoods and suburbs which characterize the dominant lifestyle of people in the Washington DC area have an even smaller black American percentage than that. That is because they are way more diverse. The Washington DC suburbs have ethnic groups and restaurants from all over the world. But someone who comes here and only stays in a socio-economically limited area will not be exposed to much of that.
Interesting how you mention the Washington suburbs. PG County has an African American majority and resemble the Atlanta suburbs than anything in the Northeast. Montgomery County is in fact more diverse than DC and resemble California suburbs demographically and in built form more (much newer and more 'sunbelt'-like) than it does Westchester or Long Island. Doesn't really resemble the Boston or Philadelphia suburbs in that respect either.
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Old 08-17-2014, 05:08 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,753,879 times
Reputation: 931
There's also NOVA - which are even newer and more "sunbelt" like than the Maryland side - but they're in a state whose "southern-ness" isn't being debated here. So in other words, Montgomery is the most "Northeastern-like" of the major suburban counties and it lacks a lot of the "Northeastern" characteristics.
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:37 PM
 
9,385 posts, read 9,548,809 times
Reputation: 5786
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yes, however a higher black % is distinctively southern. Affluence is not limited to the northeast and much of the Northeast isn't affluent.



Much of Prince George's County while maybe not affluent is middle-class and wealthier than an average American suburb. It is majority black. There are few similar places in the Northeast, like that, definitely not for an entire county. It is nothing like anywhere else in the Northeast, it's a huge outlier for the Northeast.
Just the fact people identify by county proved MD is not really Norheastern.
In most NErn states counties are largely court districts.
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