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Old 08-19-2014, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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The Mason-Dixon line is irrelevant in this discussion.

It is erroneously believed by many to have been a marker between north and south. No, it had nothing to do with that. It was a line drawn to settle boundary disputes between British colonies. This is why the stone markers still say 'P' for Penn on Delaware's side of the line. It was later used an informal marker (keyword: informal) in later compromises between slave and free states. Even still, the Missouri Compromise line far to the south was the 'official' marker between slave and free, not the Mason Dixon line. To use the Mason Dixon line as an unmoving marker between north and south relies more on myth and popular culture than on cultural and political realities.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:04 PM
 
Location: Derby, CT
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Fine with me. The Mason Dixon's original intent was indeed to settle disputes for land owners. However it quickly became an arbitrary line dividing the north and south and has been doing so for hundreds of years.

The US census gives the northeast region 9 states and always has. The Mason Dixon is still used today as a reference for this divide. As far as this conversation goes, it really doesn't matter... In the end, Maryland and Delaware simply didn't and has not ever made the cut.
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:08 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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What are the benefits of being from the northeast as opposed to other parts of the country? What are the advantages that they have over everyone else?
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Old 08-19-2014, 11:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
What are the benefits of being from the northeast as opposed to other parts of the country? What are the advantages?
I assume perceived benefits could be social liberalism and apparent lack of racism/more equality and more acceptance as a whole, but this is definitely not true for all NE areas, and not everyone would agree social liberalism is the better option. It is merely the perceived better option at the moment. I'm talking liberalism regarding gay marriage, abortion, environmental issues, etc.

Another benefit would really be an advantage over the perceived view of the South - poor, backward, racist, conservative, religious, rural, "rednecks," etc. Some don't want to be associated with this, so banding with the NE would make the South the "others," the ones they are not like.

I'm not saying I agree with any of what I just said for either region (in fact, I do not), before anyone attacks me, I'm just stating generally perceived stereotypes and generalizations about both that could make some prefer one over the other. I think people tend to view the NE and West Coast as superior for their generally more liberal politics and increased wealth. Again - I personally don't necessarily believe this is true. I honestly think it often comes down to a "but we're better than them" attitude and I have no problem saying that I believe some people on this very thread are guilty of this and that is their ulterior motive behind claiming to be NE.

Me? I like the South. I see no reason to not want to associate with it personally, which is partially why I can't understand why some are so adamant that historically Southern states that have shifted since even 50 years ago are now totally NE. It's funny, Northeasterners like me are being accused of not wanting MD and DE to be associated with the NE, but I'm accusing (or more like asking why) them of being so insistent that these states ARE in the NE. Funny how that works both ways, huh?

Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 08-19-2014 at 11:45 PM..
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Old 08-20-2014, 04:50 AM
Status: "Retired" (set 3 days ago)
 
620 posts, read 689,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I assume perceived benefits could be social liberalism and apparent lack of racism/more equality and more acceptance as a whole, but this is definitely not true for all NE areas, and not everyone would agree social liberalism is the better option. It is merely the perceived better option at the moment. I'm talking liberalism regarding gay marriage, abortion, environmental issues, etc.

Another benefit would really be an advantage over the perceived view of the South - poor, backward, racist, conservative, religious, rural, "rednecks," etc. Some don't want to be associated with this, so banding with the NE would make the South the "others," the ones they are not like.

I'm not saying I agree with any of what I just said for either region (in fact, I do not), before anyone attacks me, I'm just stating generally perceived stereotypes and generalizations about both that could make some prefer one over the other. I think people tend to view the NE and West Coast as superior for their generally more liberal politics and increased wealth. Again - I personally don't necessarily believe this is true. I honestly think it often comes down to a "but we're better than them" attitude and I have no problem saying that I believe some people on this very thread are guilty of this and that is their ulterior motive behind claiming to be NE.

Me? I like the South. I see no reason to not want to associate with it personally, which is partially why I can't understand why some are so adamant that historically Southern states that have shifted since even 50 years ago are now totally NE. It's funny, Northeasterners like me are being accused of not wanting MD and DE to be associated with the NE, but I'm accusing (or more like asking why) them of being so insistent that these states ARE in the NE. Funny how that works both ways, huh?
JerseyGirl415, you live in a state that borders Delaware. Why you wouldn't accept Delaware as a northeastern state unlike New York and Pennsylvania? Delaware was a middle colony back then.
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Old 08-20-2014, 04:55 AM
 
Location: The City
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Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
What are the benefits of being from the northeast as opposed to other parts of the country? What are the advantages that they have over everyone else?
probably none really as most is subjective
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Old 08-20-2014, 05:19 AM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
JerseyGirl415, you live in a state that borders Delaware. Why you wouldn't accept Delaware as a northeastern state unlike New York and Pennsylvania? Delaware was a middle colony back then.
If you're so sure of the answer, why'd you make this thread?
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Perhaps, but I am unsure why you are stating this. It doesnt respond to my last post (which you have quoted). I wouldn't argue that Pennsylvania was a border area due to unrest during the Civil War. It was widely considered a border area well before the conflict, more specifically during the period between independence and the Missouri Compromise.


"Exhibiting traits of both regional characters, the Pennsylvanian acquainted himself with a moderate disposition. He was free of the fiery tendancies of the proud southern planter, but equally lacked the cool collectiveness of the calculating Yankee. Pennsylvanians were a middling people of moderate character; neither northern nor southern, but an agreeable combination of the two."
What I am saying is, even during this period prior to the Civil War, this did not denote a modern-day understanding of North v. South. In this context, as your quote demonstrates, there was a recognition of a region in between New England and the South -- which is clearly where the notion of the mid-Atlantic came from. However, as you know, this region was eventually recognized as a subset of the Northeast.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
I actually have Donehoo and Patterson's book physically on hand. Here are some more quotes from it. They are describing Pennsylvania first two decades of the 19th century.
What concepts of "North" and "South" existed prior to the rise of American sectionalism? It's not like North Carolina became "southern" as soon as Sir Walter Raleigh touched down on its shores and established his colony. That wasn't a distinction that truly crystallized until the early 19th Century as both slavery and industrialization intensified.

Pennsylvanians would not have considered themselves "Yankees" in 1820 because they weren't. "Yankee" originally applied to New Englanders. It wasn't synonymous with "northeastern" or "anything that's not southern" the way it is today on City-Data.
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,308 posts, read 26,314,799 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
What I am saying is, even during this period prior to the Civil War, this did not denote a modern-day understanding of North v. South. In this context, as your quote demonstrates, there was a recognition of a region in between New England and the South -- which is clearly where the notion of the mid-Atlantic came from. However, as you know, this region was eventually recognized as a subset of the Northeast.
That's basically what I just wrote. There was no "Northeast" in 1790 when the ink on the Constitution was still fresh. There were differences between the "northern" and "southern" states, but those differences didn't ferment into hard regional distinctions until decades later. I mean, we learned (caveat: I missed a whole year of U.S. History in HS because of an exchange program) in middle school that part of the reason that Philadelphia didn't become the permanent seat of the federal government was because of a Massachusetts-South Carolina coalition that prevented that from happening (the fight over the capital was really between Pennsylvanians and Virginians and they won). So I don't think the distinction from 1787-1820 was as sharp as it was from 1820 onward.

The First and Second Banks of the United States were both established in Philadelphia, which only hardened the differences between the two regions.

Though I wonder if James Madison and Thomas Jefferson would have considered themselves "southerners." Maybe. They probably considered themselves Virginians above and beyond all else.
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