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Old 08-23-2014, 02:28 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,247 posts, read 19,545,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Yes, I don't know why that shows those cities were connected with DC. You just listed the three biggest cities of the US in the late 1700s.
The creation of Washington DC and the government of the United States by the Founding Fathers was essentially the culmination of the American Revolutionary period. Washington DC has a historical connection to these cities as the finally decided permanent site of the nation's capital, which was previously in New York City and Philadelphia for brief periods.

Washington DC was the "end game" so to speak.
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Old 08-23-2014, 02:49 PM
 
Location: The City
22,331 posts, read 32,161,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The creation of Washington DC and the government of the United States by the Founding Fathers was essentially the culmination of the American Revolutionary period. Washington DC has a historical connection to these cities as the finally decided permanent site of the nation's capital, which was previously in New York City and Philadelphia for brief periods.

Washington DC was the "end game" so to speak.
DC ended up the capital because the powerful politicians of the South did not want to much power in the north. DC was chosen as compromise so the capital would not end up in the larger cities in the North. Plus Washington lobbied for it as he lived just around the corner from it in VA

DC was a shell of itself today compared to the other of the time, Alexandria was actually the larger city of the time

In fact I would go so far as to say DC became the capital to separate the capital from the vastly more influential cities in the north at the time. Quite the opposite of creating a connection, moreso out of separation, vastly more than would exist today.

In 1790 DC had less than - current day Northern Liberties was 5 times the size of DC let alone Philadelphia of the time

https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab02.txt

again in 1800 DC with 3,300 people - 1/3rd the size of Northern Liberties or Southwark (part of S Philly today) let alone Philly proper or NYC of the time.

https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab03.txt

this assertion is not based in reality as somehow placing them together.

When the capital selection (powers wanted a new city to not put in the large cities in the north at the time) came to it it was between Federal City NJ (in between Trenton and Titusville NJ) just above the Delaware River falls and DC just above the navigable river aspect to the ocean (one of the criteria) DC was chosen to appease the south as compromise - specifically to be in the South
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,136 posts, read 9,907,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Interesting stats, like the different angle. However, Massachusetts with a similar area and population to Maryland is 5.5% state + federal (mostly state). I didn't realize NY was that high, but it makes sense. It's almost to western levels.
One thing I noticed about the New England states from looking at maps is how many small state parks and forests they have scattered across the states, especially in Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island. In contrast the upper Mid-Atlantic states (NY, PA & NJ) often have large "chunks" of parkland and forestland and all three of totals of 15% or more as public land. As you move further south into Delaware, West Virginia, Maryland and Virginia - the totals all drop below 10%. But here you can see a differences, Delaware and Maryland have conserved most of their land by themselves (a more Northern thing) while the Virginias had the help of the Federal government (a more Southern thing ).

For example contrast Rhode Island and Virginia which have about 9% of their area as public land.
Rhode Island - 9.14% total (8.90% owned by state, .24% owned by Feds)
Virginia - 9.67% total (1.37% owned by state, 8.30% by the Feds)

There has to be reasons of tradition, land use and ideas about conservation that explain these differences.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:06 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,136 posts, read 9,907,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The creation of Washington DC and the government of the United States by the Founding Fathers was essentially the culmination of the American Revolutionary period. Washington DC has a historical connection to these cities as the finally decided permanent site of the nation's capital, which was previously in New York City and Philadelphia for brief periods.

Washington DC was the "end game" so to speak.
While I think you are kind of "pushing it" a bit, you do have a point.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:03 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,144,011 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The creation of Washington DC and the government of the United States by the Founding Fathers was essentially the culmination of the American Revolutionary period. Washington DC has a historical connection to these cities as the finally decided permanent site of the nation's capital, which was previously in New York City and Philadelphia for brief periods.

Washington DC was the "end game" so to speak.
Baltimore was briefly the nation's capitol as well.
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Old 08-23-2014, 04:44 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
I thinking you are putting too much emphasis on demographics and not enough on history and geography.
If you can't see how history and demographics are directly related to each other, then I don't know what to tell you. There's a historical reason why Mississippi has such a high Black percentage and why New York has such a high Italian percentage. The two things are not independent of one another.
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Old 08-23-2014, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I don't think it's a good idea to mention history to BajanYankee. The discussion will quickly turn to slavery and jim crow and will ignore the strong historical connections between Washington DC, Philadelphia and New York City which everyone learned about in grade school.
If history is the only thing that absolutely matters in determining the regional identity of a state, then this debate is effectively over, as Maryland was never historically a northeastern state.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,457 posts, read 7,523,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
As said before, plenty of other places in the US have a high concentration of high paying white-collar jobs, not everywhere in the Northeast is full of those jobs and even in the places that are, those types are one of many parts of the culture. An important part for sure, but the only or defining part. The NYC area is nearly as much blue-collar union culture as well-paying white-collar culture, they coexist together.
Exactly, which is also true of Philadelphia and Boston. If anything, I think one of the hallmarks of the Northeast is a heritage of/respect for blue-collar backgrounds (e.g., strong union support) and economic diversity.

Conversely, DC has classism that is likely some of the worst in the country. There is definitely an strong underlying sentiment (and strong division) here in that people who don't have a college degree/work in a blue-collar trade are either dismissed or just plain invisible.
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,457 posts, read 7,523,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Conservation and Public Lands.

Here is a little interesting thing about the Mid-Atlantic states and public land ownership. Compare especially Virginia to the more northern states of New York, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

Mid-Atlantic State - % land area public land Fed and State - (% land area owned by state)

New York - 36.97% - (36.71% owned by state)
Pennsylvania - 14.74% - (12.75% owned by state)
New Jersey - 17.71 % - (15.58% owned by state)
Maryland - 6.86 % - (5.51% owned by state)
Delaware - 7.05 % - (4.87% owned by state)
Virginia - 9.67 % - (1.37% owned by state)
West Virginia - 9.92% (2.91% owned by state)

Note how much land has been saved in the 3 more northern states of NY, PA and NJ. But also note that they plus Delaware and Maryland have saved almost all their public lands by themselves without the help of the Federal government. Then look at Virginia and West Virginia, which if not for the Federal government might very well have devoted less then 3% of its land area for the public.

www.nrcm.org/documents/publiclandownership.pdf
Interesting. It'd also be interesting how much the percentages of public land would increase when you consider protected/preserved land at the local level (e.g., counties and municipalities), as I know that you'll find a lot of that in particular in Maryland, Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:17 PM
Status: "Summer!" (set 19 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
87,003 posts, read 102,592,596 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
DC ended up the capital because the powerful politicians of the South did not want to much power in the north. DC was chosen as compromise so the capital would not end up in the larger cities in the North. Plus Washington lobbied for it as he lived just around the corner from it in VA

DC was a shell of itself today compared to the other of the time, Alexandria was actually the larger city of the time

In fact I would go so far as to say DC became the capital to separate the capital from the vastly more influential cities in the north at the time. Quite the opposite of creating a connection, moreso out of separation, vastly more than would exist today.

In 1790 DC had less than - current day Northern Liberties was 5 times the size of DC let alone Philadelphia of the time

https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab02.txt

again in 1800 DC with 3,300 people - 1/3rd the size of Northern Liberties or Southwark (part of S Philly today) let alone Philly proper or NYC of the time.

https://www.census.gov/population/ww...0027/tab03.txt

this assertion is not based in reality as somehow placing them together.

When the capital selection (powers wanted a new city to not put in the large cities in the north at the time) came to it it was between Federal City NJ (in between Trenton and Titusville NJ) just above the Delaware River falls and DC just above the navigable river aspect to the ocean (one of the criteria) DC was chosen to appease the south as compromise - specifically to be in the South
Please read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Washington,_D.C.

It's way too long for me to take three sentences and have it make any sense. The district was created from land ceded by Virginia and Maryland, to have a neutral government site not in any state. The reason a southern site was chosen was political.
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