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As someone who lived in NY for almost a decade and worked in NJ for half of it, I see your opinion and raise you one.
I frankly don't care what you think you know. From an NJ perspective, I'm sure you think that NJ/NY are married because, well frankly, who wouldn't rather think of oneself as being more aligned with NYC than Philadelphia (I love Philly, BTW, before I get bashed by someone from there, but it isn't NYC).
But, a perspective that aligns NJ with PA, DE, and MD is just as valid as one that aligns it with NY [and I'm sure Ben Franklin would tell you so if he were still alive, saying that (paraphrasing here) "NJ is an hour glass open at both ends, with much of the activity/energy flowing to NYC and Philly], much as that may crumple your misplaced sense of self-worth. Cheers!
I don't think they're "married." I do think they are probably the two closest states (at the areas within the NYC metro) - and I'm right.
NJ and MD are not aligned like NJ and NY as they don't even border one another. They share no metro region, either - so no sports teams or media. MD is not a state I am exposed to every day. Neither is DE or PA, from my area of NJ at least. The media I am exposed to is NY media which covers NY, NJ, and CT - parts of all 3. From my perspective, where I live in the state, NY and NJ are close states. PA, DE, and MD may as well not exist because they're not on the general "radar" of this area anyway - but that's how it is everywhere.
For you to say that MD, PA, and DE are as aligned with NJ as NY is proves that despite the fact that you lived and worked here for a decade, you either still don't know what you're talking about or have some issue admitting the NY/NJ closeness within the metro - which wouldn't surprise me if you lived in the city because many NYC residents (transplants, usually) want to discount anything NJ, or even anything outside the city. Despite the fact that South Jersey shares the Philly region with PA, I still think NY and NJ are closer states than NJ and PA.
A bit further than just west of the Hudson though. Morris County westward gets more "country" if you will (but barely until Hunterdon and Warren) but Union, Bergen, Hudson, Essex, Passaic, even Middlesex? No way. You also forgot about the city of Philadelphia west of the Hudson, and its satellite cities like Camden (terrible as it is). It is definitely not all "country" west of the Hudson, and there is "country" east of it. Your view frankly sounds like a very typical, myopic NYC one. I wouldn't be surprised if you're from the city, especially since you wrote off NJ so easily, even though Hudson County just west of the Hudson (obviously on the river) is one of the densest, most urban counties in the country.
There are "country" parts of New England (north and east of the Hudson) that you didn't seem to count. The northeast can and does have more rural areas, but unlike what many seem to think, rural does not equal Southern.
north and some parts of central jersey and Philadelphia area excluded, ok?
I didn't mean it the way you see it. I just didn't feel like writing all that.
I don't have anything against new jersey, just saying it's more continental
like the rest of the states outside of ny and new england. it's more like that
waspy america with the strict laws and rednecks, country music and stuff.
anyway, philly is west of the delaware river, so you know that's a whole other mind frame,
even tho it's still the north. It's just way more inland than the east coast states like
new jersey, for example.
You're delusional. Look how small in pure numbers and percentage the Italian, Puerto Rican and Dominican populations are in Baltimore and DC compared to the true northeastern cities like Philly, Boston, Providence, Jersey city etc. Its a big difference. I don't understand how you cannot analyze the data right in front of you and avoid the obvious fact that DC and Baltimore are very different ethically compared to the northeastern cities. You cannot dispute this and the numbers don't lie.
This is why you have to lay extremely detailed data out for him. Otherwise, he'll just spin, spin and spin away. It's like saying that Seattle and Baltimore are "about the same" when it comes to Black people because their percentages "aren't as far apart as people make them out to be." It's not like it's that hard to get the data and then make the comparisons.
The four big, non-Hispanic White "ethnic" groups (Italian, Irish, Polish and Jewish) make up 21.75% of the Baltimore MSA (and 36% of Whites). In DC, they make up 15.65% of the MSA (31% of Whites). In Atlanta, they make up 12.38% of the MSA (25% of Whites). In Richmond, they make up 12.15% of the MSA (20% of Whites). In Philadelphia, they make up 32.68% of the MSA (51% of Whites). In New York, they make up 30.13% of the MSA (61% of Whites).
Now do the math. Baltimore is more or less smack dab in between southern and northern cities. DC, on the other hand, is clearly more comparable to southern cities since 15.65% is obviously much closer to 12.38% (Atlanta) than it is to 30.13% (NY). And these are simply the percentages. We haven't even accounted for the fact that the populations in these cities are several times larger than what you find in DC and Baltimore. There are about as many Italians in New York as there are people in the Baltimore metro area. There are more Irish, Italians and Jews in the Philadelphia metro area than there are Black people in the state of Maryland.
Yes but there is a big difference between 15% Irish (Boston) and 5% (DC)
Not to mention Boston city is not an accurate representation of the whole metro some town. South of Boston are 40%+ Irish, Lawrence, MA is 2/3rds Dominican.
Compared to DC which doesn't have towns but unincorporated villages around it ( or in VA independent cities)
Also places like Scituate, Lowell and "Reeveeeyah." Or towns like Hammonton, NJ or Old Forge, PA. Nothing really like that down there. You're not going to find any towns in Maryland that are 30-40%+ Irish or Italian. And as you said, they don't even have "towns" in the first place.
There are more than three times as many Puerto Ricans just in the city of Philadelphia as there are in the entire state of Maryland.
north and some parts of central jersey and Philadelphia area excluded, ok?
I didn't mean it the way you see it. I just didn't feel like writing all that.
I don't have anything against new jersey, just saying it's more continental
like the rest of the states outside of ny and new england. it's more like that
waspy america with the strict laws and rednecks, country music and stuff.
anyway, philly is west of the delaware river, so you know that's a whole other mind frame,
even tho it's still the north. It's just way more inland than the east coast states like
new jersey, for example.
You are so incoherent that I definitely don't get what you are trying to say. You're myopic viewpoint is just as valid as the people in Manhattan or "the city" (as locals call it) that consider Brooklyn, Queens, Bronx and Staten island as practically the same as Alabama or the sticks and won't ever step foot in the outer boroughs. Also do you notice that urban North Jersey is practically a extension of NYC? North Jersey has the same exact architecture accent metro etc as NYC. Also when it comes to architecture, accents etc NYC is more similar to the urban North Jersey cities and Philadelphia than it is to New England cities like Boston, Providence and Hartford. Also, NY state is more similar to NJ and PA (both Northeast states that have Midwestern influence in the western portion of the state) than New England states like CT, RI and MA?
^ I could have sworn I just said that in fewer words, so I am
not incoherent or myopic if I agree with you. Take it easy yo.
Don't be a disagreeable just for the sake of disagreeing.
if you don't know new jersey is more like the rest of the
country than nyc, that's your problem. I didn't say ny was
better or worse. I'm just clarifying my point of view.
As a New Yorker who has vacationed often in Pennsylvania over the years, I have noticed some minor differences between these two states. Its hard to pin them down, sometimes things just feel different. Especially in the rural areas and small towns. And of course there are also many similarities.
But noticing differences between New York and New Jersey? Not as much.
For the poster who thinks New Jersey is country - keep in mind that almost anywhere is going to seem like country compared to Manhattan. But remember New Jersey is the most densely populated state in the Union. So while New Jersey has its open areas, including a large park system (a common thing to the Northeast), its hardly country.
I don't have anything against new jersey, just saying it's more continental
like the rest of the states outside of ny and new england. it's more like that
waspy america with the strict laws and rednecks, country music and stuff.
New Jersey is a WASPy state? Only New York, California and Florida have a larger Jewish population than New Jersey. New Jersey is arguably the most Italian state on a pure, concentrated basis. They make up a greater share of the non-Hispanic White population than they do in a state like Massachusetts and there are more 30%+ Italian towns in Jersey.
If you think New Jersey is full of country music fans and rednecks, you need to get out more and see the rest of the country.
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