Which states are considered northeastern? (closest, liberal, difference between)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Until it is officially declared that the northeast regions have moved then I will stick on the side of the census bureau and will point to you all that this region moving would be the same as throwing any other state in a separate region due to cultural differences.
Who is going to officially declare it? The Census Bureau isn't going to. Besides, I don't think there are "official" regions anyway. Regional definitions are partly objective, imo. It makes sense to group certain states together based on history, demographics, etc. It's also partly subjective as far as what the people living there actually think they are. And then much of the subjective is informed by the objective similarities and differences among states.
I agree with you (I think) insofar as it being a bit of an issue when states begin to flip flop between regions. If we agree that "culture does not stop at state lines," as "culture" is being defined by some on here, then there's really no limit to what places can become "northeastern." In 40 years, when North Carolina is dominated by White liberals with non-southern accents, Blacks and Latinos, will they be able to claim "northeastern" status? Or will they just come up with some new name for their own distinct region because they find the idea of being mentioned in the same breath with states like Mississippi and Alabama to be utterly repugnant?
My personal opinion is that history plays a bigger role than most are willing to acknowledge. No matter how rich, liberal and "non-southern" Virginia and North Carolina become, they can't go back in time and share the same history with northeastern states from 1670 forward. I think each step of the journey matters, not just the steps from a certain (recent) point in time.
Who is going to officially declare it? The Census Bureau isn't going to.
Maybe, Maybe not. They probably will not.
Quote:
Besides, I don't think there are "official" regions anyway
Sure there are! If there weren't, then we could just wildly place whatever state we want in whatever region.
Quote:
Regional definitions are partly objective, imo.
I presume you mean partly subjective... though if it's only partly subjective then it also would mean that it's partly objective lol.
Regions are objective. Regional differences are subjective.
Quote:
It makes sense to group certain states together based on history, demographics, etc. It's also partly subjective as far as what the people living there actually think they are. And then much of the subjective is informed by the objective similarities and differences among states.
On the side of history, the lines have been drawn. I agree that it is an issue if states flip-flop regions which is why, unless there is objective non-cultural changing, non-opinionated data that supports the idea that what has already been established as the northeast is missing those two states... then there is no reason to change the lines already there.
If we give the go to MD and DE, then we have to expand those rules to apply to all border states of any region. I'm not prepared to accept such a proposal.
Maryland and Delaware, stay in your own damn region
For what it's worth, I acknowledge that MD and DE have changed over time to become more in line with the northern states and agree that cultural differences don't stop at the state lines. I also think those arguments are irrelevant to the very much objective regional lines.
Sure there are! If there weren't, then we could just wildly place whatever state we want in whatever region.
I presume you mean partly subjective... though if it's only partly subjective then it also would mean that it's partly objective lol.
Regions are objective. Regional differences are subjective.
On the side of history, the lines have been drawn. I agree that it is an issue if states flip-flop regions which is why, unless there is objective non-cultural changing, non-opinionated data that supports the idea that what has already been established as the northeast is missing those two states... then there is no reason to change the lines already there.
If we give the go to MD and DE, then we have to expand those rules to apply to all border states of any region. I'm not prepared to accept such a proposal.
Maryland and Delaware, stay in your own damn region
For what it's worth, I acknowledge that MD and DE have changed over time to become more in line with the northern states and agree that cultural differences don't stop at the state lines. I also think those arguments are irrelevant to the very much objective regional lines.
Maryland and Delaware's own region is the Mid-Atlantic, which also includes Pennsylvania and New Jersey.
It only makes sense for downstate NY to be considered mid-Atlantic. The rest of the state? At least half of upstate NY is more Great Lakes than Atlantic anything.
Maryland/DC is not in the same region as New York. I see the Mid-Atlantic region (really a region within a region) has two competing definitions: the "non-New England" Northeast and MD/DC/VA. However NY does not have more in common with MD/DC than it does with New England, so trying to "tack on" MD/DC to the same region as NY/NJ/PA just seems desperate.
Furthermore, Pennsylvania is clearly a Northeastern state and it's not particularly affluent and it is filled with white working class "Reagan Democrats." So why is "affluence" being used as a criteria to merit the inclusion of MD/DC in the Northeast when the Volvo-driving "latte liberal" stereotype doesn't really apply to PA?
I agree with you (I think) insofar as it being a bit of an issue when states begin to flip flop between regions. If we agree that "culture does not stop at state lines," as "culture" is being defined by some on here, then there's really no limit to what places can become "northeastern." In 40 years, when North Carolina is dominated by White liberals with non-southern accents, Blacks and Latinos, will they be able to claim "northeastern" status? Or will they just come up with some new name for their own distinct region because they find the idea of being mentioned in the same breath with states like Mississippi and Alabama to be utterly repugnant?
I think that's a valid point. I acknowledge that Maryland, for example, can make an argument based on a variety of historical, geographical, and present-day factors to be included in the Northeast -- but when states/urban regions further south start to adopt a cultural atmosphere that is more similar to points north (e.g., the Charlottes, Atlantas and Miamis of the world), we obviously can and should still recognize them as Southern.
Maryland/DC is not in the same region as New York. I see the Mid-Atlantic region (really a region within a region) has two competing definitions: the "non-New England" Northeast and MD/DC/VA. However NY does not have more in common with MD/DC than it does with New England, so trying to "tack on" MD/DC to the same region as NY/NJ/PA just seems desperate.
Furthermore, Pennsylvania is clearly a Northeastern state and it's not particularly affluent and it is filled with white working class "Reagan Democrats." So why is "affluence" being used as a criteria to merit the inclusion of MD/DC in the Northeast when the Volvo-driving "latte liberal" stereotype doesn't really apply to PA?
Eh, that's an over-simplification (and increasingly outdated as PA's demographics have shifted pretty dramatically since the years of Reagan; the "latte liberal" crowd is definitely alive-and-well in the Philly and Pittsburgh areas).
More to your point, this is not a regional phenomenon (no state in the Northeast is uniformly affluent and liberal) -- it is an urban v. rural phenomenon. You can find yuppies in urban areas across the entire US.
It only makes sense for downstate NY to be considered mid-Atlantic. The rest of the state? At least half of upstate NY is more Great Lakes than Atlantic anything.
I do agree, but again - Census does count the whole state as Mid-Atlantic. And I personally don't agree with splitting states between regions/taking part of a state out of a region.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
