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Old 08-01-2018, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Culturally Hispanics are coming at such a high rate that they're not assimilating into American culture. There's a large enough Hispanic population that they keep to themselves vs assimilate like the Italians, Germans and Irish have done. I've met second and third generation HIspanics who still talk with a Mexican accent and don't sound American.
1. Hispanics aren't coming to the U.S. at a particularly high rate any longer. The peak was during the GWB presidency. Mexican immigration plummeted during the Great Recession, and has never recovered (some years more undocumented Mexicans move back to Mexico than come to the U.S.). While Central American immigration has picked up a bit, in general more immigrants now come to the U.S. from Asia than Latin America.

2. The point on language is also factually untrue. Third-generation Hispanics may have an "accent" in some cases, but they overwhelmingly use English as their primary language.

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Old 08-01-2018, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,060 posts, read 3,383,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1995 View Post
Personally, I think that if you look and act white, you will be perceived as white. If you're 5% nonwhite then you will probably look completely white still, but at 25% it's a much different story.
Most black Americans are between 75-85% black, I would estimate. Yet they're just considered black (which they are) Race is a social construct anyway. Ethnicity is more genetically defined.

My ex's foster sister's are blue eyed and blond haired, super pale look extremely European. Though their mother is part Native American (and you can tell, some of her relatives can pass for Mexican) but those kids will live their entire lives as white. And who's to say they aren't? Most of what race IS, is appearance. Sadly, throughout the course of history in this country, the powers of be have tried to manipulate that over and over again.

And genetics are fickle. Idk I watched a DNA test video of a Mexican woman who looked overwhelmingly European, yet was half and half native and European. Personally, I also don't see why calling yourself "white" means you have to ignore any non-white heritage you have. The 14% of me that isn't European is 6% North African, 6% Sub-Saharan African, 1% Middle Eastern and 1% Native American. My roommate who is about 35ish% Ojibwe made it very clear, that I can't claim to be native, because 1% is virtually nothing, and I agree. But it still IS a part of me, from waaay back when. So is the African. But, the vast majority is from European, southern, southwestern and northwestern alike.

Every Hispanic individual is different. I do love the reaction from Hispanic immigrants, most of which are Mestizo or Mulatto in Minnesota (though believe me I've found some white ones but they're usually not immigrants but rather born here) when I speak to them in perfect Spanish. They never suspect it as my mother tongue. But in South Florida where white Hispanics are common, they're more surprised if you DON'T know Spanish, as they expect everyone to know it for some reason.

Btw what the hell do you mean by "acting white"? I hate when people say that. Basically it means "not acting stereotypically black/asian/latino etc." Please, enlighten me on how one "acts white."
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Old 08-01-2018, 09:02 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,820 posts, read 12,324,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
1. Hispanics aren't coming to the U.S. at a particularly high rate any longer. The peak was during the GWB presidency. Mexican immigration plummeted during the Great Recession, and has never recovered (some years more undocumented Mexicans move back to Mexico than come to the U.S.). While Central American immigration has picked up a bit, in general more immigrants now come to the U.S. from Asia than Latin America.

2. The point on language is also factually untrue. Third-generation Hispanics may have an "accent" in some cases, but they overwhelmingly use English as their primary language.
Here's the thing though. Most Asian Americans and Indian Americans I know who were born in the US to immigrant parents do not have a foreign accent and sound American, the only exception being areas with a large Asian population like California. But then California Asians are also less Americanized than here in the South.

Hard to see someone as American or "white" if they speak with a pronounced Mexican accent.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:58 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,060 posts, read 3,383,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Here's the thing though. Most Asian Americans and Indian Americans I know who were born in the US to immigrant parents do not have a foreign accent and sound American, the only exception being areas with a large Asian population like California. But then California Asians are also less Americanized than here in the South.

Hard to see someone as American or "white" if they speak with a pronounced Mexican accent.

There's lots of Hispanics (not just Mexicans, shocking enough, other nations exist) who speak English without any noticeable Latino accent. Myself included. Many do, and I think its more regional, for example in Miami and LA they have a distinct Latino accent, New York too. But I've met lots of Latinos in Texas (multigenerational) who either spoke with a very neutral flat sounding accent or with a Texas twang which ranged from subtle, to thick. Many others did speak with a unique Tex-Mex blend of southern and Mexican influences as well, but others could pass for Anglo-white if you just heard them on the phone.

Here in Minnesota I have met Hispanics who have the typical Minnesoootah accent and not a Spanish tinge at all. I think it depends who you associate with and how much Spanish you do or don't know.

Btw no one is saying that these American born individuals have "foreign accents" but rather their American accents are influenced by the native language of their parents. Think of how those Italian guys from Jersey sound American but there's an Italian rhythm to how they speak. But no one says those guys don't sound white.
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:01 AM
 
11,456 posts, read 6,578,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
1. Hispanics aren't coming to the U.S. at a particularly high rate any longer. The peak was during the GWB presidency. Mexican immigration plummeted during the Great Recession, and has never recovered (some years more undocumented Mexicans move back to Mexico than come to the U.S.). While Central American immigration has picked up a bit, in general more immigrants now come to the U.S. from Asia than Latin America.

2. The point on language is also factually untrue. Third-generation Hispanics may have an "accent" in some cases, but they overwhelmingly use English as their primary language.
Yeah that's true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadgerFilms View Post
Most black Americans are between 75-85% black, I would estimate. Yet they're just considered black (which they are) Race is a social construct anyway. Ethnicity is more genetically defined.

My ex's foster sister's are blue eyed and blond haired, super pale look extremely European. Though their mother is part Native American (and you can tell, some of her relatives can pass for Mexican) but those kids will live their entire lives as white. And who's to say they aren't? Most of what race IS, is appearance. Sadly, throughout the course of history in this country, the powers of be have tried to manipulate that over and over again.

And genetics are fickle. Idk I watched a DNA test video of a Mexican woman who looked overwhelmingly European, yet was half and half native and European. Personally, I also don't see why calling yourself "white" means you have to ignore any non-white heritage you have. The 14% of me that isn't European is 6% North African, 6% Sub-Saharan African, 1% Middle Eastern and 1% Native American. My roommate who is about 35ish% Ojibwe made it very clear, that I can't claim to be native, because 1% is virtually nothing, and I agree. But it still IS a part of me, from waaay back when. So is the African. But, the vast majority is from European, southern, southwestern and northwestern alike.

Every Hispanic individual is different. I do love the reaction from Hispanic immigrants, most of which are Mestizo or Mulatto in Minnesota (though believe me I've found some white ones but they're usually not immigrants but rather born here) when I speak to them in perfect Spanish. They never suspect it as my mother tongue. But in South Florida where white Hispanics are common, they're more surprised if you DON'T know Spanish, as they expect everyone to know it for some reason.

Btw what the hell do you mean by "acting white"? I hate when people say that. Basically it means "not acting stereotypically black/asian/latino etc." Please, enlighten me on how one "acts white."
Correct, you do not have to be completely black to be considered black in the US. Black people accept anyone with visible black ancestry as black, but the equivalent is not true of whites.

And by acting white, well you know damn well what that means. It's not an insult, it just means speaking and dressing more similarly to the standard American white person in this case. As far as US born Hispanics go, I find they either act white or black with varying amounts of Hispanic flair.

I also think Tom Lennox might be mistakenly considering immigrants as 2nd gen. I know people from Latin America who came as children who you might mistake as US born because the're completely fluent in English, but they still have pretty strong accents.

Yes it is common for Latinos to have a tinge of Latino in their accent, however not to the extent that most of them are foreign sounding. African-Americans sound VERY distinct from white Americans on average, but obviously there is nothing foreign/un-American about their accent, just a difference.

But yeah, as far as US born Latino accents, they might sound white, black, distinctly Latino, or some combination of the 3 . It depends on things like where they grow up and what social class they belong to. Even siblings can sound different from each other.

And Asians don't all sound the same as American white folk, I had a US born Bengali uber drive not too long ago and she totally sounded like she could have been an immigrant. She even alluded to this by mentioning people mistaking her for not being US born.
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,416 posts, read 11,920,328 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Here's the thing though. Most Asian Americans and Indian Americans I know who were born in the US to immigrant parents do not have a foreign accent and sound American, the only exception being areas with a large Asian population like California. But then California Asians are also less Americanized than here in the South.

Hard to see someone as American or "white" if they speak with a pronounced Mexican accent.
Some of it is the fault of ESL classes, which were well-intentioned but ultimately a crappy idea. People pick up their accent from their classmates at school, and in most cases it solidifies by age 16 or so. So if you take all the kids with Spanish-speaking parents and stick them in classes together, they're going to end up speaking English with more of a "Hispanic" accent than they would otherwise. As would any non-Spanish speakers in the class - kids from other immigrant backgrounds in Spanish-heavy parts of the country like Southern California often thus end up with the exact same accent.

Bottom line is if you want to wipe out sociolects, you need to have integrated classrooms.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:23 PM
 
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I met a Mexican-American woman from Laredo, Texas last night and she sounded white to me. I wonder if that's the norm in that area.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:28 PM
 
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I honestly think that a Hispanic person in the US not sounding white is more likely to be from black influence (AAVE) rather than being Hispanic. At least in my experience.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:51 PM
 
2,318 posts, read 945,198 times
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They were originally white!



The modern "hispanic" minority group is a recent political fabrication that was invented in the 80s. When my family was growing up in Texas, Spanish-Americans were just some kind of white people! They never heard of a "hispanic" until the late 80s nor did they think that people of Spanish origin were minorities. That was made up.
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Old 08-05-2018, 02:52 PM
 
2,318 posts, read 945,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
I was born in the 70s and my birth certificate says Caucasian even though I am dark skinned.

Yes. All Mexicans were white, even if they had brown skin.
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