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Old 09-22-2014, 02:41 PM
 
Location: USA
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Many of them look like ethnic caucasians, so yeah that's white pretty much. What else would it be?
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Old 09-22-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Middle Easterners are seen as white in the U.S. quite often.



Turkish



Arab



Arab



Half-Arab
Lol, those are extreme examples, and the second guy could come under question just like Greeks, Spaniards, Sicilians and Jews do. Most Arabs dont look like those guys. Most people wouldn't consider Al-Quaeda an organization filled with whites or consider Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein a white guy.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:00 PM
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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,988 posts, read 41,967,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Lol, those are extreme examples, and the second guy could come under question just like Greeks, Spaniards, Sicilians and Jews do. Most Arabs dont look like those guys. Most people wouldn't consider Al-Quaeda an organization filled with whites or consider Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein a white guy.
Southern Europeans are still thought as non-white? I think you're about 50 years out of date. People from the northern Middle East (Lebannon, Turkey) don't look that much different from Southern Europeans, they're similar to others from the Meditereran. Those from further south look different.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Lol, those are extreme examples. Most Arabs dont look like those guys. Most people wouldn't consider Al-Quaeda an organization filled with whites or consider Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein a white guy.
You do make a great point. Turkish people fall in that gray area, where some will look more European in appearance while others can look Middle Eastern. Those other pics are extreme examples. Steve Jobs could've easily be mistaken for being Jewish in his later years in life but he did look more Arab in his youth.

http://obamapacman.com/wp-content/up...Steve-Jobs.jpg
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Southern Europeans are still thought as non-white? I think you're about 50 years out of date. People from the northern Middle East (Lebannon, Turkey) don't look that much different from Southern Europeans, they're similar to others from the Meditereran. Those from further south look different.
You are correct. Southern Europeans are White but on rare occasions you do have Whites that get mistaken for a different racial group. Melissa Gorga from the Real Housewives of NJ televison show said in one of the episodes that people often mistake her for being Black. She is of Italian ancestry on both sides of her family. Looking at this picture of her, I'm sure you could understand why some would be confused a bit by her appearance.

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Last edited by gwillyfromphilly; 09-22-2014 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Southern Europeans are still thought as non-white? I think you're about 50 years out of date. People from the northern Middle East (Lebannon, Turkey) don't look that much different from Southern Europeans, they're similar to others from the Meditereran. Those from further south look different.
It depends, Nei, many people do not consider a guy from Greece or Portugal "regular" white and that isn't 50 years behind. I know a kid who moved up here from Alabama, and he said he was not considered white there. He is a very southern European looking (US born) guy with an unmistakably Italian surname. Another guy was a manager of mine who was Romanian by descent. He grew up in Georgia (the state) and said that among other things he was not considered white and experienced racial discrimination and bullying because of this. Even as recently as last year, a colleague of mine (A very intelligent Nigerian college professor) commented that a student originally from Spain is "not really white". This is despite the fact that the student speaks flawless American English and has been a US citizen since his teenage years (he is now over 40).

No doubt, it is different in a place like MA where there are countless Italians and they make up the majority or large minority in many places. But Nei I think your perception might be skewed from the rest of country, since most places haven't seen such mass Mediterranean immigration. If we go to parts of the country where there hasnt been large numbers of Mediterraneans or Hispanics, like "Middle America", then people from a place like Greece or Turkey would certainly be considered "other". I know for sure that where I am in one of the most cosmopolitan areas of the country, a middle eastern "white" guy, save extreme examples, wouldn't be considered the same thing as John Williams of colonial English/German ancestry. Lots of fully Italian people still say things like "I'm Italian" and seem to make a distinction between themselves and "real" whites. I also know for sure that when black people say someone is acting white it isn't referring to a guy speaking Spanish/Arabic or dancing salsa. I think that in many cases these people may be tossed in with "whites" due to lack of any other real categorization, but in practice are not considered "white" like John Williams in every day society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
You are correct. Southern Europeans are White but on rare occasions you do people of Whites that get mistaken for a different racial group. Melissa Gorga from the Real Housewives of NJ televison show said in one of the episodes that people often mistakes her for being Black. She is of Italian ancestry on both sides of her family. Looking at this picture of her, I'm sure you could understand why some would be confused a bit by her appearance.

Image - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting
If she is white, then so is Barack Obama.
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Old 09-22-2014, 04:49 PM
 
9,967 posts, read 14,616,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Lol, those are extreme examples, and the second guy could come under question just like Greeks, Spaniards, Sicilians and Jews do. Most Arabs dont look like those guys. Most people wouldn't consider Al-Quaeda an organization filled with whites or consider Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein a white guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Southern Europeans are still thought as non-white? I think you're about 50 years out of date. People from the northern Middle East (Lebannon, Turkey) don't look that much different from Southern Europeans, they're similar to others from the Meditereran. Those from further south look different.
Yeah, Lebanese and Syrians are really a different ethnic group from Arabs from the Gulf. Arab in itself is just a broad cultural group of anyone who speaks Arab. People will also call Algerians and Moroccans and Egyptians Arabs when in fact there's different ethnic groups in those nations--including Berbers who tend to be fairly white in looks.

My wife is half-Syrian and her fully Syrian relatives occasionally get mistaken for Greeks or Italians.

Last edited by Deezus; 09-22-2014 at 05:08 PM..
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:02 PM
 
9,967 posts, read 14,616,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
It depends, Nei, many people do not consider a guy from Greece or Portugal "regular" white and that isn't 50 years behind. I know a kid who moved up here from Alabama, and he said he was not considered white there. He is a very southern European looking (US born) guy with an unmistakably Italian surname. Another guy was a manager of mine who was Romanian by descent. He grew up in Georgia (the state) and said that among other things he was not considered white and experienced racial discrimination and bullying because of this. Even as recently as last year, a colleague of mine (A very intelligent Nigerian college professor) commented that a student originally from Spain is "not really white". This is despite the fact that the student speaks flawless American English and has been a US citizen since his teenage years (he is now over 40).

No doubt, it is different in a place like MA where there are countless Italians and they make up the majority or large minority in many places. But Nei I think your perception might be skewed from the rest of country, since most places haven't seen such mass Mediterranean immigration. If we go to parts of the country where there hasnt been large numbers of Mediterraneans or Hispanics, like "Middle America", then people from a place like Greece or Turkey would certainly be considered "other". I know for sure that where I am in one of the most cosmopolitan areas of the country, a middle eastern "white" guy, save extreme examples, wouldn't be considered the same thing as John Williams of colonial English/German ancestry. Lots of fully Italian people still say things like "I'm Italian" and seem to make a distinction between themselves and "real" whites. I also know for sure that when black people say someone is acting white it isn't referring to a guy speaking Spanish/Arabic or dancing salsa. I think that in many cases these people may be tossed in with "whites" due to lack of any other real categorization, but in practice are not considered "white" like John Williams in every day society.
If you're just going by looks, I could be considered "non-white" by the above as I've got olive complexion when I'm tanned and black hair and can pass for a Mediterranean ethnicity or Hispanic(people have asked me if I'm Italian or Latino my whole life)--though culturally I'm pretty average white American and my DNA is 50% Polish and the rest is from the British Isles or other places in Northern Europe. No one ever considers me "not white" though, though I get questions about my ethnicity.

A lot of people from Spain or Italy aren't even that dark though--there's plenty with fairer complexion and light hair as well(much lighter than my own looks). If you're just talking about culturally white though--that's a whole different thing. A recent immigrant is much different than a completely assimilated 3rd or 4th generation descendant of Lebanese, Italian, Greek, or Portuguese immigrants...and looks can vary within any of those ethnic groups. No one considers Tom Hanks(half Portuguese) not to be white....
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:10 PM
 
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Keanu Reeves is also considered "white" even though he is half Asian. I can think of many other actors who fit that bill. The fact of the matter is that many hispanics have a very high intermarriage rate. Many of their kids will for all intensive purposes look "white" or at least mostly white.

I think what we are seeing in North America; is the absorbption of former "minority groups" into the white mainsteam. Akin to what happened to Eastern, and Southern Europeans. It is not exactly the same, but it is similar.

We are already seeing it in the way the media portrays Asians with economic data, and education/economic mobility. How many tech stories have to come out stating that their are no "minorities" in tech, when in fact nearly 30-50 percent of the tech workers are Asian and Indiain.

We are also seeing it, in the way that the George Zimmerman trial painted him as a just a regular "white" guy. When in fact he is partly of hispanic heritage. The term white is taking on a diffrent cultural meaning in the 21st century. The intersection of class/ethnic lines is being blurred to some degree.

Again, I am talking about the cultural mainstream (TV, art, media, etc.). I am not suggesting that people are just going to give up their respective ethnic identities. But I think we are seeing a change in what "whiteness" entails from a generation or two ago.

I think the White vs. Black paradigm will always be the dominant discussion in American politics. The recent protests in Ferguson pretty much confirmed that.
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Old 09-22-2014, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Nashville TN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
Hispanic isn't a race.



One can be Black, White, Asian, or Meztizo and be "Hispanic."
Finally somebody with the right answer. You win.
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