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Old 07-22-2015, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,407,907 times
Reputation: 2896

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stremba View Post
According to Wikipedia the elevation of Charlotte is 751 ft. That is hardly "high up in the mountains". An elevation of 751 ft would have little effect on climate. The inland location of Charlotte would be much more important in terms of climate than the 751 ft elevation.
Haha, right, that's 50 or so feet over the elevation of the Great Lakes.
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Old 07-22-2015, 11:46 AM
 
1,640 posts, read 2,055,493 times
Reputation: 2543
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricS39 View Post
Yet market prices aren't higher down south?

In the south....

houses are bigger and cost less

more land,

lower prices on everything and Lower gas prices at the pump

More shopping centers

More space

Better year round weather

More population growth


So why would anyone not move south? What would make someone not move south within the US?

And why are northeast prices so high despite everything being astronomically better down south?

Take a barren northeast dreary January thru May with absolutely nothing to do but hibernate
Live in a tiny home and pay a fortune waiting patiently for a short summer season where everything is jacked up high as it gets because of peak season

Vs year round summer down south, live in gigantic home on golf course and year round access to beach down the street

Yet why are prices higher up north?
In the South, property values are lower because there's a greater abundance of developable land on which to build relative to other areas of the country such as the Northeast and West Coast, where the ocean, more varied terrain, and/or the high density of highly urbanized environments greatly constricts the amount of land area that can be developed for residential purposes.

There are also fewer environmental restrictions and caps on land development in the South, so for the most part, there's a lot less bureaucracy to navigate through to build a home or development than in the Northeast or, say, California.

Furthermore, in the South, housing costs among other costs (e.g., gas, utilities, etc.) are lower than in the Northeast and other regions of the country because salaries and wages are accordingly lower. So if a middle-skill worker is earning $22-25/hour in the Northeast, he or she would probably be earning $12-15/hour in the same position in the South. Economies of scale.

Lower salaries/wages is one of the major reasons why more people don't pick up and leave the Northeast or other areas of the country and move to the South en masse like you suggest they should. A lot of high-skilled workers and white-collar professionals are turned off by the comparatively lower salaries because they're less competitive in the global market, especially for those just starting out.

If a young professional in particular were to launch his or her career in the South, that individual would have inherently less negotiating power with regard to his or her salary than a professional in the same industry with similar qualifications who launched their career in California, New York or Illinois.

Low and middle-skilled workers are largely turned off by the South because of the strong RTW laws that foster lower union participation rates and, in turn, diminish collective bargaining power. That's one of the reasons why salaries/wages are much lower and non-wage benefits (e.g., medical, dental, vision, profit-sharing, PTO, etc.) are less comprehensive in the South for both unionized AND nonunion employees.

Additionally, Southern states have fewer employment discrimination, workplace safety and other protective laws and regulations on the books compared to most Northern and Western states. This fosters a generally unwelcoming workplace environment for those who work in hazardous positions, especially in the manufacturing, trade and healthcare industries, as well as minority populations such as LGBT folks.

Also, stating that homes down South have "more land" is quite misleading, since a majority of people who live in the South, live in high-density suburban developments (AKA big tract houses situated on small lots where you could touch your neighbor's house if you reached out your window). This is especially common in Florida, Texas and Oklahoma and less of an issue in Georgia and the Carolinas, IME. In the Northeast, most neighborhoods are older in age, and in older neighborhoods, homes tend to sit on larger lots with more "elbow room." Developers clearly weren't as greedy back then and there was simply a lower demand for suburban housing.

Although times are changing, the South's economy, particularly with regard to the professional services sector, is still lackluster compared to the Northeast, Upper Midwest and West Coast. Cities with an abundance of well-compensated white-collar industry such as Atlanta, Dallas and Raleigh, for example, are the exception within the South, not the rule.

Fewer professional services jobs per capita is largely the result of historically lower educational attainment levels in the South compared to every other region of the country--save, perhaps, the Southwest--due a primarily agrarian economy until the mid-to-late 20th century, a higher proportion disadvantaged and disenfranchised individuals (e.g., African-Americans) and less overall spending on public K-12 and higher educational expenditures among other reasons.

Translation: The workforce in the South is less educated than in the Northeast. That's why corporations tend to locate their manufacturing plants and support centers in the South as opposed to their corporate operations. The lower cost of doing business is great for small businesses and entrepreneurial ventures, but small business pays very poorly, generally speaking.

Finally, "better weather" is highly subjective. Most of the South suffers disproportionately from disastrous storms such as hurricanes, tornadoes (see "Dixie Alley"), thunder and lightening storms, hailstorms and ice storms relative to many areas of the country. Summers are long and hot, and the humidity is quite intense, the latter of which creates a host of other related issues (e.g., pests, mold, mildew, etc.). That, plus aside from south and central Florida, winters in the South can be quite cold, icy and, to a lesser extent, snowy. So much for "year-round summer," LOL!

Oh, yeah--"year-round golf" and "beaches down the street" really only applies to Florida, as most Southern metro areas are pretty far removed from the beach and, again, have fairly cold winters, during which golf cannot be enjoyed. This is why Florida has more expensive real estate relative to most Southern states. However, Florida more than any other Southern state is a "catch 22," so to speak, because although real estate is more affordable overall than the Northeast, the COL is disproportionately high relative to salaries/wages, which are abysmally low. Northern prices, Southern wages. I lived in Florida for many years, so I ain't whistlin' Dixie, either.

You mention the South having better shopping centers than up North. Funny, because shopping seems to be popular pastime in many Southern metro areas due to the lousy weather and general lack of stimulating cultural amenities due to less refined interests among residents and outdoor recreational opportunities due to less varied terrain.

At the end of the day, you better like that big house you're living in down South because you're going to be spending a lot of time in it due to the lack of well-paying jobs, cultural amenities and outdoor recreational opportunities as well as the lousy weather.

Last edited by 8to32characters; 07-22-2015 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 07-22-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,746 posts, read 3,218,740 times
Reputation: 7205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
That's because you're trying to make it seem that way to justify your new locale. A summer in Southern Ontario is much different than a southern summer - not even close. Humidity, heat differential, and angle of the sun make it much more torturous.
I'm trying to "justify" my new locale. Um, why would I feel a need to do that?

I'm not sure how you know about living in Southern Ontario/SE Michigan during the summer compared to living in Tennessee in summer. Is it so hard to believe that there might be some credibility to the observations of people who've actually LIVED in the places being discussed?

Summers in Southern Ontario and in SE Michigan are pretty darn hot and humid. Trust me on this.
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Old 07-22-2015, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,407,907 times
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I won't - I live in Wisconsin, which has basically the exact same summer. I've also spent weeks at a time in many southern locales during winter. The two are simply not comparable. But continue to justify your move in your head, whatever makes you feel good!
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Old 07-22-2015, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,746 posts, read 3,218,740 times
Reputation: 7205
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
I won't - I live in Wisconsin, which has basically the exact same summer. I've also spent weeks at a time in many southern locales during winter. The two are simply not comparable. But continue to justify your move in your head, whatever makes you feel good!

You're a hoot, ya know that?

You "won't" what?

I guess I should sit here and argue with YOU about Wisconsin summers, because I was there in summer once, so that must mean I'm an expert on it, no? Without a doubt, I DO know about summers in the places that are the topic of this thread, though.

Last edited by newdixiegirl; 07-22-2015 at 01:12 PM..
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,407,907 times
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Average monthly temperatures:

May
Nash: 78/57
Detr: 67/48

June
Nash: 86/65
Detr: 77/58

July
Nash: 90/70
Detr: 82/63

August
Nash: 90/68
Detr: 80/62

September
Nash: 82/61
Detr: 73/55

Significantly different summers, and Nashville is barely even in "the South." Add in humidity and angle of the sun, and I don't know what to tell you if you are unable to feel the difference.

Again, I'm quite familiar with Ontario and Michigan. You know, since I live right next door and have spent a lot of time there and the climate is nearly identical to the one I live in? I've also spent a lot of time in Memphis and have stayed for a week at a time a few times in Nashville, all during summer.

But whatever, keep telling yourself they're the same, despite all evidence to the contrary LOL
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,575 posts, read 14,367,639 times
Reputation: 23487
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbtornado View Post
Also, Many areas in the south are MORE prone to freezing rain (or ice) in winter than many Northern States are. That may sound crazy but I know for a fact that ice storms are far more common in Tennessee and Arkansas and Oklahoma compared to areas like Michigan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yn0hTnA View Post
Nonsense. Do you have any sources and links that show Tennessee, Arkansas, and Oklahoma as being more prone to freezing rain than Michigan is?
Not nonsense. There are quite a few areas where the temps hover around the freeze point frequently in the winter. Snow frequently melts before it even hits the ground and as temps start dropping in the evening any moisture creates a thin coating of ice that doesn't melt until the daytime temps start creeping up again. Areas to the north tend to stay more consistently cold and don't experience the same degree of the icy freeze thaw cycle.
I experienced far more 'ice' living in Memphis than I did in MI or here in the mountains of east TN, I'll take the snow of colder areas over the ice and bone chilling rain of the warmer areas any day
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
5,746 posts, read 3,218,740 times
Reputation: 7205
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Not nonsense. There are quite a few areas where the temps hover around the freeze point frequently in the winter. Snow frequently melts before it even hits the ground and as temps start dropping in the evening any moisture creates a thin coating of ice that doesn't melt until the daytime temps start creeping up again. Areas to the north tend to stay more consistently cold and don't experience the same degree of the icy freeze thaw cycle.
This is true.
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:33 PM
 
Location: A subtropical paradise
2,069 posts, read 2,205,808 times
Reputation: 1329
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Not nonsense. There are quite a few areas where the temps hover around the freeze point frequently in the winter. Snow frequently melts before it even hits the ground and as temps start dropping in the evening any moisture creates a thin coating of ice that doesn't melt until the daytime temps start creeping up again. Areas to the north tend to stay more consistently cold and don't experience the same degree of the icy freeze thaw cycle.
I experienced far more 'ice' living in Memphis than I did in MI or here in the mountains of east TN, I'll take the snow of colder areas over the ice and bone chilling rain of the warmer areas any day
Well, in the end, it doesn't really matter, as there are still wide swaths of the South, especially along coastal areas, where the vast majority of winter days are nice and sunny with 60F+ high temps, and 40F+ low temps. These recent winters, with Polar vortices coming down, have spoiled people, with miraculous amounts of snowfall coming down in areas that normally don't get any. However, the true climate of those areas of the South is such that decades to centuries can pass before any amount of winter precipitation occurs.
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Old 07-22-2015, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,407,907 times
Reputation: 2896
Quote:
Originally Posted by newdixiegirl View Post
This is true.
Right, but for some reason you omitted the gist/point of it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
I experienced far more 'ice' living in Memphis than I did in MI or here in the mountains of east TN, I'll take the snow of colder areas over the ice and bone chilling rain of the warmer areas any day
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