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Maybe San Diego but most of the West Coast gets pretty cold in the winter sometimes. It's not uncommon for it to get down to 29F in San Jose. In Miami that's very rare.
Jacaranda trees will grow and do look beautiful in San Diego. I'm sure they make it in Miami as well. They would even probably make it for a few years in South Texas, until of coursel Brownsville goes down to 13F again. Then they would be toast, just like the coco palms that can barely make it there more than a few years.
I guess this poll would force me to vote for the West. Though that's so broad. Wouldn't Hawaii and Alaska count in that? Talk about opposites there. Even PacNW and the SW are different. Rainy/cloudy/green vs. Brown/sunny/dry.
I wish where I lived it was colder, and a little more variety in the weather. I wish summer highs were in the 80s or 90s. Right at this very second here in Tucson my phone says its 88, that's perfect! Too bad it's only this nice at night.
Much more stability on the West Coast than eastern US. But for stability, China and that huge Siberian High takes the cake. In the US in winter it is one low pressure system after another tracking across the country, or dropping down into it in the winter. Hence our instability.
China is stable in the winter, West Coast is stable in the summer. A huge high pressure system camps out along the CA coast, allowing for sunny warm conditions and cool nights. From spring to fall, China is plagued by a myriad of rainy seasons, typhoons, etc... The kinds of frontal systems that hit during the winter tend to be just rain events for CA. So overall it is a more stable climate.
Also, because of the Siberian High and non varying weather, China tends to get awful air pollution during the winter. There aren't many sunny days even if the weather is clear. It's more of a haze. And there is nothing to clear out the weather until the spring storms arrive. I much prefer the varying weather of the East Coast. However, if I wanted stability, I would go to California.
Also, not all of China is stable in the winter. I was in Taipei in February and it was during their rainy season. It alternated between mid 50's and rainy and 70's and sunny. Not unlike what the conditions back in Austin were.
Maybe San Diego but most of the West Coast gets pretty cold in the winter sometimes. It's not uncommon for it to get down to 29F in San Jose. In Miami that's very rare.
Let's compare coastal locations only.
Record low in Miami is 27F. Record low in SF is 27F. SF 37.78N is much higher latitude than Miam 25.78N.
Move on down to LAX (coastal location). Record low in Miami is 27F. Record low at LAX is 27F.
Now, let's go inland.
Let's compare San Jose to Orlando. I think that is a fair comparison.
Record low in San Jose is 19F. Record low in Orlando is 18F. Again, San Jose is much further north than Orlando.
Now, let's compare Palm Springs (inland S. CA) to Orlando (inland FL). Record low in Orlando is 18F. Record low in Palm Springs is 19F.
CA just doesn't get as cold as FL during cold snaps. During winter heatwaves, both areas can see 80's so that doesn't vary much. The main difference between the two is the summer, where CA dominates in every way.
As others have said, the options are way too general. I like where I live in the western Great Plains. I prefer semi-arid over humid areas. The other area that appeals to me would be the northern parts of the intermountain west. If I were to move away from the Black Hills, I'd be headed for Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho.
Ultimately, I like having snow on Christmas and heat in the summer and it's not always humid in the Midwest like it is in the South.
I, too, don't like how the vagueness of the categories because I would never live in Chicago or Minneapolis because of their weather pattern. (Too much snow. Too much heat.) However, I love the weather we get in SE Michigan. A lot of the storms from Chicago break up over Lake Michigan and, if they don't, they break up before they get to Detroit Metro.
We still get weather, but we don't get the lake effect storms like they do in Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo.
Look at the record lows in San Francisco and how far north it is. Then look at the record lows in San Diego.
Frost is rare in San Francisco and non-existent in San Diego. The West Coast has mild weather in the winter, many times warmer than South Florida. I was in Miami once with highs in the mid 50's and lows in the 30's. At the same time, it was 65 in San Diego.
And there were many winter days where NYC recorded warmer temps than LA, but we all know that NYC is colder on average than LA. By the same token, we all know that San Diego is colder on average than Miami.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach
Let's compare coastal locations only.
Record low in Miami is 27F. Record low in SF is 27F. SF 37.78N is much higher latitude than Miam 25.78N.
Move on down to LAX (coastal location). Record low in Miami is 27F. Record low at LAX is 27F.
Now, let's go inland.
Let's compare San Jose to Orlando. I think that is a fair comparison.
Record low in San Jose is 19F. Record low in Orlando is 18F. Again, San Jose is much further north than Orlando.
Now, let's compare Palm Springs (inland S. CA) to Orlando (inland FL). Record low in Orlando is 18F. Record low in Palm Springs is 19F.
CA just doesn't get as cold as FL during cold snaps. During winter heatwaves, both areas can see 80's so that doesn't vary much. The main difference between the two is the summer, where CA dominates in every way.
The Eastern US, including Florida, was under a cold epoch when the records were set; when this cold epoch finally disappears for good, and it has been slowly easing away, from the Eastern US, you will see how warm and stable the US South really is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog
One of these things is not like the other. Do you see the contradiction? S. Padre gets roughly 28 inches of rainfall annually, on average. Not as wet as Galveston, but not quite what I would term a "semi-arid" climate. Then there's the constant high levels of humidity, as you pointed out. It is not tropical. It is in the same climate zone as the rest of the Texas coast; humid SUB-tropical. That "sub" makes all the difference. You can argue this all you like, but the fact of the matter is that coconut palms do not, have not, and will not survive in that climate. The reason people don't pump money into planting them there is because it would be a huge waste of money and the trees would never live to anywhere near maturity, unless they were inside a giant greenhouse.
The 28 inches of rainfall per year that South Padre Island receives is quite dry compared to the preferences of Coconut Palms. That contributes definitely to coconuts being non-existent to South Padre Island compared to Florida at the same latitude.
Obviously, climate contributes as well; yes, as a subtropical climate, South Padre can eventually see cold severe enough to wipe out coconuts. But, as a subtropical climate, such cold is infrequent enough in that it won't be a total waste to invest in coconut palms, and grow them to the point that the fruit. It can be decades, even generations, before South Padre gets cold enough to wipe out Coconut Palms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog
But it doesn't. If Alaska were part of Australia rather than North America, the toilets would flush in the opposite direction.
Like I said, if Miami was in the same situation as Brownsville (water only on one side, not on a peninsular location), it would get every bit as cold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog
Not true. The warming effect that the Gulf of Mexico has on coastal Texas is no match for a raging arctic cold front diving down the path of the jet stream into more Southern latitudes. It's not like these massive cold air masses just stop dead in their tracks once they approach the coast. I've been at the beach when a cold front hits, and guess what? It keeps going. In a matter of minutes the temp can drop from 82 to 30... at the beach. I've experienced this firsthand several times growing up in coastal Texas.
Once again, totally false. Where are you getting this from? It's not like S. Padre is some isolated island out in the middle of the gulf. It's a barrier island with only a couple or few miles separating it from the mainland, and as such, it's climate is pretty much identical to Port Isabel or Brownsville, except maybe a little breezier. "No impact"? Please.
You obviously didn't comprehend what was put forth to you. If I wasn't clear, then I apologize. So let me restate the point:
You said "Add to that it's centrally located on the North American continent, and subject to the Southern dips that the jet stream takes across the Great Plains in winter, which is what brings those little Arctic blasts as far South as Mexico sometimes."
I was simply saying that just because South Padre Island and Texas are located centrally in the North American continent doesn't necessarily mean that they get more severe cold snaps than somewhere further east or west. The Jet Stream can dip over the Great Plains, bringing cold air to the central areas, or it can dip over the Appalachians, or West of the Rockies, bringing colder air to those locations; it is not fixed. Being in a central area of the continent will increase the risk of powerful cold snaps compared to areas further east or west only if the location is also in the interior, away from the moderating effects of water. For Texas, that applies only to the Panhandle locations; the Texas coast receives the same moderation from water as any other place further East or West, and is no more prone to cold than other Southeastern locations. Texas "northers" are no different from any other cold front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog
Yeah, but none of those are coconut palms. Or Papayas, or Mangoes, or any other form of actual tropical fruit-bearing plants.
Watermelons, guavas, and cantelope, all of which a tropical crops, are grown in this Winter Garden Area of Texas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog
And they failed. That's why you'll never see any there.
It really does seem like you have an agenda to try and convince people that the Texas coast is in the tropics. I don't say this to be mean or to belittle you. It's just an observation of a pattern I've noticed in a pretty large percentage of your posts, ever since I first joined C-D. And it flies in the face of facts.
No, Galveston is warm enough to the point that it is reasonable to take a chance at growing coconuts. I've seen on a gardening forum before where someone talked about growing coconut palms even in South Mississippi, which is colder than Galveston during winter.
I never said that the Texas Coast, and the rest of the Southern US Coast is in the tropics; my claim has always been that they are PURE SUBtropical paradise. If you call spreading the word about the orgasmic climate of the Coastal US South an agenda, then yes, I do have an agenda. People in the US need to realize they have a large region in their country with an awesome climate that combines tropical-style summers with lots of rain AND sun, as well as mild, sunny, Med-style winters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
Consider yourself debunked. It isn't rare for San Antonio to go below 20F, on average it happens once every single year. Look it up on NOAA. Over the last 30 odd years, SA averages one day per year with a low temp of 20F or lower.There is no whacked out "cold epoch" going on here. I will ask you again for the umpteenth time to prove it with a link to scientific papers pointing out that the US is going thru a "cold epoch". You really have no clue.
As for the cold epoch, I am still searching for the original document that explains the phenomenon over the Eastern US. In the mean time, enjoy examples of this phenomenon in other regions:
Much more stability on the West Coast than eastern US. But for stability, China and that huge Siberian High takes the cake. In the US in winter it is one low pressure system after another tracking across the country, or dropping down into it in the winter. Hence our instability.
That simply means that the Eastern US gets precipitation more often during winter than China, which is dry; nothing to do with instability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons
He or she does that with all of the Southeast US coast. None of the Southeast coast is tropical, save a tiny sliver at the tip of the FL peninsula, but he just won't buy it. He is trying to convince himself the US has this wonderful subtropical region, while in reality it doesn't. You can barely get Jacaranda trees to full maturity in Orlando, FL, while they thrive in just about every other subtropical climate including Italy, Spain, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, etc.
But look here at what the Orlando Sentinel states:
August 10, 2002|By Tom MacCubbin, Sentinel Columnist
Question: I live in southwest Orlando. Do purple jacaranda trees grow here?
Answer: Many gardeners would like to grow the attractive purple-flowering jacarandas that bloom during late spring. However, they are not cold hardy. During the warmer years, the trees usually grow to flowering size only to be damaged by colder winters. Some years they are frozen to the ground.
If you are near a lake or your area is naturally warm, it might be worth taking the risk of planting a jacaranda. Gardeners also should note these are rather large trees growing to 50 feet tall with a canopy that is 60 feet wide. They also produce an extensive root system. One jacaranda can shade the average front or back yard, leaving little room for sun-loving plants.
If a person even has to ask if the tree grows there, they are obviously not even seeing them around the area. A person in these other countries would never ask cause the tree is so beautiful and unmistakable.
The fact that the amazing and beautiful Jacaranda tree cannot grow as far south in the US as Orlando is proof positive of the terrible nature of our marginal subtropical climates. That along with the fact that in the 1980's millions and millions of acres of citrus trees were taken out by cold air right out of Canada.
He never refutes any of this info I post, just keeps blabbing on about the "tropical paradise" that is the southeast US and this bizarre "cold epoch" nonsense. He really must be a 16 year old kid or something. LMAO.
If you are saying Jacaranda trees can only be found in the Coastal South south of Orlando, then you clearly haven't explored Gulf Coast cities, like Houston/Galveston and New Orleans, thoroughly, both of which have Jacaranda trees growing. Those two cities are a high Zone 9, borderline Zone 10; they can easily handle Jacarandas, which are mere zone 9 plants. In fact, lets take at what Wikipedia has to say about the Jacaranda:
Quote:
The Blue Jacaranda has been cultivated in almost every part of the world where there is no risk of frost; established trees can however tolerate brief spells of temperatures down to around −7 °C (19 °F). In the USA, 48 km (30 mi) east of Los Angeles where winter temps can dip to −12 °C (10 °F) for short several-hour periods, the mature tree survives with little or no visible damage.
In the United States, it grows in parts of Oregon, California, Nevada, Arizona, Texas, and Florida, the Mediterranean coast of Spain, in southern Portugal (very noticeably in Lisbon), southern Italy (in Naples and Cagliari it's quite easy to come across beautiful specimens). It was introduced to Cape Town by Baron von Ludwig in about 1829. It is regarded as an invasive species in parts of South Africa and Queensland, Australia, the latter of which has had problems with the Blue Jacaranda preventing growth of native species. Lusaka, the capital of Zambia, and Harare, the capital of Zimbabwe, also see the growth of many Jacarandas.
If Jacarandas can grow in OREGON and NEVADA, then they can easily grow in the Houston, New Orleans, and the rest of the Coastal South. In Galveston, there is pratically a Norfolk Island Pine in every other house, and they are zone 10 plants. If Galveston can grow Norfolk Island Pines with that frequency, they can definitely grow the zone 9 Jacarandas.
Just because the person in Orlando was asking about Jacarandas doesn't mean they don't grow in Orlando; it just means the person didn't see them, maybe because the Jacarandas were in one part of town, for example. There are parts of Naples, Malaga, Brisbane, Durban, and Buenos Aires (one city for each of the countries you named, respectively) where you see no Jacaranda trees, and a visitor, too, would wonder if they grow in those places.
If I was really a 16 year old kid, then I would be doing lots of other things rather than debunking your sophomoric claims and assertions. Nice try, but no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valsteele
Maybe San Diego but most of the West Coast gets pretty cold in the winter sometimes. It's not uncommon for it to get down to 29F in San Jose. In Miami that's very rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cBach
China is stable in the winter, West Coast is stable in the summer. A huge high pressure system camps out along the CA coast, allowing for sunny warm conditions and cool nights. From spring to fall, China is plagued by a myriad of rainy seasons, typhoons, etc... The kinds of frontal systems that hit during the winter tend to be just rain events for CA. So overall it is a more stable climate.
Also, because of the Siberian High and non varying weather, China tends to get awful air pollution during the winter. There aren't many sunny days even if the weather is clear. It's more of a haze. And there is nothing to clear out the weather until the spring storms arrive. I much prefer the varying weather of the East Coast. However, if I wanted stability, I would go to California.
Also, not all of China is stable in the winter. I was in Taipei in February and it was during their rainy season. It alternated between mid 50's and rainy and 70's and sunny. Not unlike what the conditions back in Austin were.
Amen; too many people think that the US South is the only subtropical region that gets cold, and has variation, during winter. ALL subtropical regions get cold from time to time and ALL subtropical regions have variation to some degree during the winter, even California.
And then, there are the responders who go on...and on.......and on.....and on.......
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