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Old 09-02-2014, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
3,844 posts, read 8,035,372 times
Reputation: 1607

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Cleveland continues to have money poured into reinvestment at record setting levels. This would not have happened 5-10 years ago. Check it out:

Cleveland a ‘city of choice’ for development

This city is on a very strong upswing recently.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:29 PM
 
21,204 posts, read 30,404,475 times
Reputation: 19650
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
Was at Ponte Vedra and Jacksonville Beach in early 90's. Nothing at all to write home about. Trust me, they look nothing like Miami beaches. NJ Shore beaches had clearer water and nicer sand imo.
It's more about what's next to the sand and water in my opinion. Most of the Jersey Shore is kind of trailer park-esque. Jacksonville Beach and Ponte Vedra Beach are quite a bit more upmarket.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,707 posts, read 2,051,671 times
Reputation: 995
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I forgot about Busch Stadium... is it still surrounded by all the stalled construction and mounds of dirt that have been there since 2006?
No, did you also forget about the mentioned highrises? The federal building? The Lumiere casino and two accompanying hotels (including a 5 star Four Seasons) which happen to be practically right next to the mentioned dome? The constantly changing Washington Ave. next to the dome that went from being largely abandoned to being filled with lofts (a downtown census track grew by over 300%), countless new restaurants, renovated/new hotels, a movie theater, the ongoing national blues museum, etc? The current work actually on/attached to the dome? The redone Old Post Office Square (the building, plaza, surrounding buildings turned into lofts, a new luxury high rise residential tower, a new grocery store, etc.)? The new almost billion dollar bridge and street-scape changes? Arch grounds redo? Lid over 70? I haven't even remotely listed anywhere close to everything downtown (not even the hottest changing area of the city), much less the rest of the city and/or region (including some big demographic shifts in the region) because frankly you're really just being ridiculous now... I know ripping on St. Louis is one of your favorite hobbies, but come on, at least be even close to factually accurate!
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: St. Louis
2,480 posts, read 2,228,908 times
Reputation: 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by DinsdalePirahna View Post
I forgot about Busch Stadium... is it still surrounded by all the stalled construction and mounds of dirt that have been there since 2006?
If by mounds of dirt you mean the completed Phase One of Ballpark Village and parking lots on which they plan on building the additional phases, then sure. It's all just dirt still.

It's clear that you don't like St. Louis, and it obviously isn't for everybody, but the level of misinformation you're spouting is not only absurd, but it can also easily be disproven with a Google search taking mere seconds. Instead of saying that you know nothing has changed since 1995 because you were there a year and a half ago, I suggest performing said Google search.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR -> Rocky River, OH
795 posts, read 963,683 times
Reputation: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by costello_musicman View Post
Cleveland continues to have money poured into reinvestment at record setting levels. This would not have happened 5-10 years ago. Check it out:

Cleveland a ‘city of choice’ for development

This city is on a very strong upswing recently.
And the national media is paying attention! From some quick googling:


Wall Street Journal: Just in Time for LeBron: Downtown Cleveland Stages a Comeback - WSJ
USA Today: Rebound city: 'This isn't Henny Youngman's Cleveland'
NPR: Rust Belt Reboot Has Downtown Cleveland Rocking : NPR
CNN: Cleveland: Booming in more ways than Lebron - Aug. 8, 2014
Huffington Post: On LeBron James' Return to Cleveland: "The Best Location in the Nation"*|*Antwone Fisher
MSNBC: Who says Cleveland needs saving? | MSNBC
NYTimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/04/us...nventions.html


Thought Catalog: Cleveland Is Really The Comeback City | Thought Catalog
Thought Catalog: 5 Reasons Why It’s Okay To Like Cleveland | Thought Catalog
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,439 posts, read 11,941,006 times
Reputation: 10547
Downtown Cleveland is actually pretty nice these days as a nightlife/entertainment area. But compared with Pittsburgh, I think it's still got a ways to go.

1. Downtown Cleveland has a lower "job density" than Pittsburgh. Both cities employ roughly 100,000 people within their downtown. But Pittsburgh is only .66 square miles, while Cleveland is around 3.2 square miles. This can be felt on street level during the day, where many areas have a dead feel, while Downtown Pittsburgh is positively pulsing around lunch, and still pretty active throughout the day on a street level.

2. In terms of residential density, Pittsburgh again wins out. Cleveland had more people in the 2010 census than Pittsburgh (11,693 to Pittsburgh's 3,629) but given downtown Cleveland is so much larger geographically, the density doesn't compare. Downtown Pittsburgh was nearly 5,500 ppsm, whereas Cleveland was roughly 3,650.

3. Nightlife is the one area that Downtown Cleveland is clearly better than Downtown Pittsburgh. However, much of this has to do with the differing nature of the outlying neighborhoods. Pittsburgh has many neighborhoods which have developed into substantial nightlife draws - most notably South Side Flats and Lawrenceville, but with smaller concentrations in Shadyside, the Strip District, Oakland, North Shore, Station Square, East Liberty, etc. In contrast, as far as I can see, the Downtown Cleveland nightlife takes up all the oxygen in Cleveland. Ohio City and University Circle have very limited amounts of nightlife, but they're more similar to the "secondary" nightlife areas in Pittsburgh than the actual draws of South Side and Lawrenceville - which have dozens of bars and restaurants along walkable main drags which stretch for miles.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,226 posts, read 67,372,527 times
Reputation: 15865
In no particular order, other than alphabetical:

Baltimore (moderate renaissance---should remain as such)
Boston (rapid renaissance---should remain as such)
Buffalo (slow renaissance--should be moderate in about a decade)
Chicago (moderate renaissance---should remain as such)
Cincinnati (moderate renaissance---should remain as such)
Cleveland (slow renaissance---should be moderate in about five years)
Detroit (slow renaissance---may remain as such for a while)
Milwaukee (slow renaissance---may accelerate in about a decade)
Philadelphia (moderate renaissance---likely to accelerate further in about five years)
Pittsburgh (moderate renaissance---likely to accelerate further in about five years)
Rochester (slow renaissance---should be moderate in about a decade)
St. Louis (slow renaissance---should be moderate in about a decade)
Toledo (slow renaissance---should remain as such)
Washington, DC (rapid renaissance---should remain as such)


Interesting to note would be smaller-sized "Rust Belt" metro areas that are relatively close to booming Rust Belt metro areas. For example, as Pittsburgh continues to become a more and more expensive place to live in the coming years, Youngstown; Wheeling; Weirton/Steubenville; New Castle; and Altoona/Johnstown may all benefit from people moving out of Pittsburgh and into those areas searching for a lower cost-of-living and more laid-back lifestyle.

Baltimore already attracts a lot of young DC area talent that wants urbanity and walkability but can't afford DC prices. Once Baltimore becomes more expensive I foresee Hagerstown further benefiting. Same with Wilmington benefiting from Philadelphia becoming more expensive as it continues to attract people from NJ/NYC who view Philly as being "cheap" right now.

I'd love to one day see East St. Louis and Gary make a comeback, but it's unlikely either will unless St. Louis and Chicago, respectively, boom to the point of becoming too expensive for the middle-class and lower-middle-class.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
12,439 posts, read 11,941,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
Interesting to note would be smaller-sized "Rust Belt" metro areas that are relatively close to booming Rust Belt metro areas. For example, as Pittsburgh continues to become a more and more expensive place to live in the coming years, Youngstown; Wheeling; Weirton/Steubenville; New Castle; and Altoona/Johnstown may all benefit from people moving out of Pittsburgh and into those areas searching for a lower cost-of-living and more laid-back lifestyle.
We're decades away from this here. Maybe somewhere like Greensburg might start turning around if the local economy kicks into high gear, and if passenger rail service eventually returns. But even in Pittsburgh were all gentrified or gentrifying, there's still so many urban boroughs within Allegheny County which haven't seen the slightest whiff of appreciation yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
I'd love to one day see East St. Louis and Gary make a comeback, but it's unlikely either will unless St. Louis and Chicago, respectively, boom to the point of becoming too expensive for the middle-class and lower-middle-class.
East Saint Louis is structurally speaking suburban, as is most of Gary. My understanding is there's one somewhat gentrifying part of Gary. Still, you'd basically need to see all of the better-located urban parts of Saint Louis and Chicago respectively gentrify until you saw something happen there. Cities like Newark and Camden are IMHO much better poised.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR -> Rocky River, OH
795 posts, read 963,683 times
Reputation: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Downtown Cleveland is actually pretty nice these days as a nightlife/entertainment area. But compared with Pittsburgh, I think it's still got a ways to go.

1. Downtown Cleveland has a lower "job density" than Pittsburgh. Both cities employ roughly 100,000 people within their downtown. But Pittsburgh is only .66 square miles, while Cleveland is around 3.2 square miles. This can be felt on street level during the day, where many areas have a dead feel, while Downtown Pittsburgh is positively pulsing around lunch, and still pretty active throughout the day on a street level.

2. In terms of residential density, Pittsburgh again wins out. Cleveland had more people in the 2010 census than Pittsburgh (11,693 to Pittsburgh's 3,629) but given downtown Cleveland is so much larger geographically, the density doesn't compare. Downtown Pittsburgh was nearly 5,500 ppsm, whereas Cleveland was roughly 3,650.

3. Nightlife is the one area that Downtown Cleveland is clearly better than Downtown Pittsburgh. However, much of this has to do with the differing nature of the outlying neighborhoods. Pittsburgh has many neighborhoods which have developed into substantial nightlife draws - most notably South Side Flats and Lawrenceville, but with smaller concentrations in Shadyside, the Strip District, Oakland, North Shore, Station Square, East Liberty, etc. In contrast, as far as I can see, the Downtown Cleveland nightlife takes up all the oxygen in Cleveland. Ohio City and University Circle have very limited amounts of nightlife, but they're more similar to the "secondary" nightlife areas in Pittsburgh than the actual draws of South Side and Lawrenceville - which have dozens of bars and restaurants along walkable main drags which stretch for miles.
Good, honest breakdown comparison. I like how Pittsburgh and Cleveland are the two "unexpected" outliers for brain gain cities:

Quote:
Originally Posted by costello_musicman View Post
A nice article on Cleveland and Pittsburgh: America's Top Young Adult Workforces: A Rust Belt Rebirth?*|*Richey Piiparinen

Turn around of Downtown Cleveland outline -- $5.5 billion since 2010: http://www.downtowncleveland.com/media/221278/Q2-2014-DCA.pdf
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
3,844 posts, read 8,035,372 times
Reputation: 1607
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Downtown Cleveland is actually pretty nice these days as a nightlife/entertainment area. But compared with Pittsburgh, I think it's still got a ways to go.

1. Downtown Cleveland has a lower "job density" than Pittsburgh. Both cities employ roughly 100,000 people within their downtown. But Pittsburgh is only .66 square miles, while Cleveland is around 3.2 square miles. This can be felt on street level during the day, where many areas have a dead feel, while Downtown Pittsburgh is positively pulsing around lunch, and still pretty active throughout the day on a street level.

2. In terms of residential density, Pittsburgh again wins out. Cleveland had more people in the 2010 census than Pittsburgh (11,693 to Pittsburgh's 3,629) but given downtown Cleveland is so much larger geographically, the density doesn't compare. Downtown Pittsburgh was nearly 5,500 ppsm, whereas Cleveland was roughly 3,650
.

3. Nightlife is the one area that Downtown Cleveland is clearly better than Downtown Pittsburgh. However, much of this has to do with the differing nature of the outlying neighborhoods. Pittsburgh has many neighborhoods which have developed into substantial nightlife draws - most notably South Side Flats and Lawrenceville, but with smaller concentrations in Shadyside, the Strip District, Oakland, North Shore, Station Square, East Liberty, etc. In contrast, as far as I can see, the Downtown Cleveland nightlife takes up all the oxygen in Cleveland. Ohio City and University Circle have very limited amounts of nightlife, but they're more similar to the "secondary" nightlife areas in Pittsburgh than the actual draws of South Side and Lawrenceville - which have dozens of bars and restaurants along walkable main drags which stretch for miles.
I'm betting Downtown Pittsburgh is adding a bunch of new residential as well. Downtown Cleveland will be at around 15K-16K within the next 2-3 years when all the major residential projects are finished.
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