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Old 08-28-2014, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,178 posts, read 3,845,228 times
Reputation: 2473

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OptimusPrime69 View Post
I think the "rust belt" needs a re-branding of sorts.
Cities like Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Cinnci just sound like crap....
Pittsburgh is the pitts! Cleveland, the mistake on the lake! etc etc...

they need to shake that "rust belt" feel and name, I hate it. The rust belt just sounds bombed and depleted and depressing, ugh never wanna live in any of those cities would hate living in "the rust belt" No thanks
Only an ignoramus uses what the name "sounds like" to judge what kind of place it actually is. And before you go judging it based on what you've heard, or what the names remind you of, maybe you should try actually visiting them. They are all highly livable cities with a lot of positives, and home to 10s of millions of people. Do you think all those people would still live here if it's as bad as you think it is?
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,395,034 times
Reputation: 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Only an ignoramus uses what the name "sounds like" to judge what kind of place it actually is.
Well....you know...you might have something there

I've never heard anyone in Milwaukee refer to it as "a rust belt city." That's something people outside the area do.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:19 PM
 
3,953 posts, read 3,487,388 times
Reputation: 6330
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheese plate View Post
Well....you know...you might have something there

I've never heard anyone in Milwaukee refer to it as "a rust belt city." That's something people outside the area do.
I don't think you hear most residents from "rust belt" cities refer to them as such. It also sucks to live in a city from the "rust belt" that didn't suffer the same decline be lumped in with the "rust belt" based on Geography.
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee
3,451 posts, read 3,395,034 times
Reputation: 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjlo View Post
I don't think you hear most residents from "rust belt" cities refer to them as such. It also sucks to live in a city from the "rust belt" that didn't suffer the same decline be lumped in with the "rust belt" based on Geography.
Obviously, I was just responding to the person who doesn't like the area based on the name itself, as if we were responsible for what Californians call our cities.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Mid Atlantic USA
12,330 posts, read 10,298,159 times
Reputation: 5389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
First of all, ignore that poster.

Second of all - Philadelphia is actually booming right now. It's in full swing renaissance mode.

Philadelphia third in US in construction jobs



Phila. third in U.S. in new construction jobs


There is a lot more than 2 skyscrapers being built in Philly lol
1. Comcast Innovation and Technology Center - 59 floors - 1,121 feet
2. FMC Tower at Cira Centre South - 49 floors - 730 feet
3. SLS International - 47 floors - 590 feet
4. W & Element by Westin - 50 floors - 582 feet
5. Evo - 33 floors - 420 feet
6. 500 Walnut - 26 floors - 380 feet
7. 700 Schuylkill Ave - 23 floors - 375 feet
8. 1601 Vine - 32 floors - 370 feet
9. 1919 Market - 28 floors - 347 feet
10. 3601 Market - 28 floors - 320 feet
11. Penn Medicine South Tower - 19 floors - 302 feet
12. 1900 Chestnut - 26 floors - 295 feet
13. Children's Hospital Ambulatory Care Center- 14 floors - 292 feet
14. Lancaster Square - 25 floors - 279 feet
15. 38Chestnut - 25 floors - 278 feet
16. Philadelphia Family Court Building - 15 floors - 265 feet
17. One Riverside - 22 floors - 260 feet

^^This doesn't include any other proposals or anything under 250 feet.

How many of those you listed are actually under construction right now? Philly is infamous for "proposed" and "possible". I want to see dirt being moved. I live here, and I don't see it.
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Old 08-28-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
8,702 posts, read 11,922,865 times
Reputation: 3574
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom77falcons View Post
How many of those you listed are actually under construction right now? Philly is infamous for "proposed" and "possible". I want to see dirt being moved. I live here, and I don't see it.
You live in Philly and you don't know if any of these projects are under construction? So either you live in New Jersey or the Northeast and never come into Center City... gotcha. Yet you claim to be a pro on everything Philly? Makes sense now. Do yourself a favor, walk around a little bud.

The majority of these projects are well underway or are starting by the end of the year. I guess you don't see it because you don't come into Center City - ever.

New Comcast Tower over 1,000 feet tall and the tallest building in the US outside of NYC and Chicago is well underway
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/...CC0BE6726C.jpg

FMC Tower at 730 feet tall has been underway for more than a month
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...6ce0b56e3dd50d

Evo has been under construction for two years and is nearly complete
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...88001693_n.jpg

Etc. etc. etc. The majority of these projects are well underway or definite to start within the next few months.

Last edited by RightonWalnut; 08-28-2014 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:01 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,217 posts, read 17,948,587 times
Reputation: 14655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Knocked down wholesale? There are no neighborhoods in Cleveland that have been completely knocked down.
Kinsman is pretty damn close to knocked down. There's no neighborhood in Pittsburgh that's even close to being that empty. Fairfax and Hough have plenty of missing teeth too. The closest I can find to that in Pittsburgh is in the Hill District and a small slice of California-Kirkbride.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
There are some neighborhoods that are very rough, and have a lot of abandoned houses, but there are still lots of people that live there (i.e. it's not like Detroit where whole city blocks are leveled).
Cleveland is not as bad off as Detroit in that regard, but still worse off than Pittsburgh based on satellite imagery.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
I don't think Pittsburgh is as "head and shoulders" above the rest as you'd like to think.
You'd be surprised. Last year, the Washington Post put together a map that ranked all the ZIP codes in the United States based on a combination of income and educational attainment. Each ZIP code was given a percentile, and here's how Pittsburgh's ZIP codes fared:


15217 - 83rd percentile
(EAST END: Squirrel Hill, Greenfield, Point Breeze)

15222 - 75th percentile
(DOWNTOWN/EAST END: Downtown, Strip District, part of Polish Hill)

15220 - 70th percentile
(WEST END: West End, Elliott, Crafton Heights, Westwood, Ridgemont, Banksville)


15232 - 68th percentile
(EAST END: Shadyside)

15216 - 61st percentile
(SOUTH HILLS: Beechview, part of Banksville, part of Brookline)


15236 - 61st percentile
(SOUTH HILLS: Hays)

15218 - 58th percentile
(EAST END: Regent Square, part of Squirrel Hill)


15203 - 57th percentile
(SOUTH SIDE: South Side Flats, South Side Slopes)

15205 - 57th percentile
(WEST END: Fairywood, Oakwood, East Carnegie)


15211 - 55th percentile
(SOUTH HILLS: Mount Washington, Duquesne Heights, Allentown)

15206 - 46th percentile
(EAST END: East Liberty, Highland Park, Morningside, Stanton Heights, Larimer, Lincoln-Lemington)

15213 - 45th percentile
(EAST END: Oakland, part of Shadyside)

15208 - 44th percentile
(EAST END: Homewood, part of Point Breeze)


15226 - 43rd percentile
(SOUTH HILLS: Brookline, Overbrook, part of Carrick)

15201 - 41st percentile
(EAST END: Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, Polish Hill)

15224 - 38th percentile
(EAST END: Garfield, part of Bloomfield)

15207 - 34th percentile
(EAST END/SOUTH HILLS: Hazelwood, Glen Hazel, New Homestead, Lincoln Place, part of Greenfield, part of Hays)

15214 - 33rd percentile
(NORTH SIDE: Perry North, Perry South, Northview Heights, Summer Hill)

15212 - 30th percentile
(NORTH SIDE: Brighton Heights, Marshall-Shadeland, California-Kirkbride, Allegheny West, Allegheny Center, Central North Side, Fineview, East Allegheny/Deutschtown, Spring Hill, Spring Garden, Troy Hill, Washington's Landing)

15204 - 16th percentile
(WEST END: Sheraden, Esplen, Chartiers City, Windgap)


15233 - 12th percentile
(NORTH SIDE: Manchester, Chateau, part of Marshall-Shadeland)

15219 - 11th percentile
(EAST END: Hill District, Uptown/Bluff)

15210 - 10th percentile
(SOUTH HILLS: Carrick, Bon Air, Beltzhoover, Mount Oliver, St. Clair, Arlington)



ZIP codes that extend beyond Pittsburgh's city limits are shaded in DARK RED. Each ZIP code is substantially within the city limits, though, so there's no case of a ZIP code clipping the edge of the city while being mostly in the suburbs.

Pittsburgh has 10 ZIP codes that are either entirely or substantially within city limits that rank above the 50th percentile. By comparison, the highest-ranking ZIP code that's either entirely or substantially within Cleveland's city limits is 44114, which includes downtown Cleveland and the area around Cleveland State University, and it only ranks in the 40th percentile. Even 44113, which includes Tremont and Ohio City, only ranks in the 35th percentile.

Cleveland also has the dubious distinction of having a ZIP code in the 0th percentile: 44104, which includes Kinsman, Fairfax and Woodland Hills. The only other major cities that have a ZIP code in the 0th percentile are Cincinnati, Dallas, Memphis and Philadelphia. Other very-low-percentile Cleveland ZIP codes include 44103, 44105, 44108, 44110, 44112 and 44127, which all rank in the 5th percentile or lower.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that Pittsburgh is farther along in revitalization than Cleveland, and just because I say that doesn't mean that I don't know about anything happening in Cleveland. It wouldn't surprise me if most neighborhoods west of the Cuyahoga River enjoy a surge of investment in the next 10 to 20 years as Tremont and Ohio City get more expensive. With that said, most neighborhoods east of the Cuyahoga River are in very bad shape.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Isn't the city on receivership from the state, and classified as "financially distressed"? Cleveland on the other hand has received less state money, and has posted budget surpluses in recent years.
Pittsburgh does not receive state money for being financially distressed. All Act 47 does is give Pennsylvania the authority to review and approve or reject the city's budget every year.

Last edited by Craziaskowboi; 08-28-2014 at 04:09 PM..
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,849 posts, read 7,795,643 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summersm343 View Post
You live in Philly and you don't know if any of these projects are under construction? So either you live in New Jersey or the Northeast and never come into Center City... gotcha.
Another groundbreaking announced today: Rodin Square Breaks Ground, Reaffirms Luxury Baller Status - Ground Breaking - Curbed Philly. Mixed use residential property anchored by a Whole Foods.
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Center City
6,849 posts, read 7,795,643 times
Reputation: 9469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talmud2 View Post
I'm not sure if construction activity constitutes a re-birth.
For me, this story constitutes a re-birth. What is your definition?


Center City District- 20 Years of Downtown Transformation - YouTube
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:11 PM
 
Location: Paris
1,706 posts, read 2,048,063 times
Reputation: 990
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I thought about this in some of these areas. However, the new development which has been going in (with the exception of the new apartments in West Oakland) has almost all been HUD assisted mixed-income. It's helped make these areas transition from ghetto (semi-ghetto for West Oakland) into socially stable, but I wouldn't say true gentrification has kicked in yet.



Larimer's new housing is going to be mixed income. We don't know yet for Almono in Hazelwood, but I wouldn't be surprised if this ultimately ends up mixed-income as well (a lot of people are going to be displaced from Bedford Dwellings soon, and they'll need somewhere to go). And any plans for new housing in Allgheny Center are decades away, unless you count the spiffing up the new landlord is doing to the existing residential towers there.



I am only referring to the core city, not the metro as a whole. The outlying counties are dying a slow death, besides a handful of exurbs which have become popular with tax scofflaws as they're just over the county line. Frankly many of the suburbs in Allegheny County are in decline too. But I'm a city person, so I don't care about that, and this thread is about city renaissance, not metro renaissance.

My experience with the other small rust-belt cities, as I have said, is they just don't have a core city which is gentrifying as fast or as widely. One half of the city is generally a low-income/black area which is treated as a mess that no white people ever go to. Even the working-class white sides of the cities often contain areas in steep decline. Usually it's just the downtowns, along with one or two neighborhoods immediately nearby, which experience gentrification, along with a socially stable neighborhood or two near the major universities. I know of none which have anything like Pittsburgh's East End, where some of the wealthiest neighborhoods in the entire metro are right inside of the city, and there's a swathe of neighborhoods between these and Downtown all gentrifying essentially simultaneously.
Well here when we say cities we're generally referring to the metro area, and as a "city person" as well I'd still be concerned about the situation you outlined. I do prefer it to the inverse in a metro such as Detroit, but I digress... How much experience do you have with other "rust-belt" cities? You don't know any neighborhoods in other cities that are also some of their respective metro's most expensive? With gentrification happening around them? Is that the only criteria for the East End comparison? I don't agree with some of your other comments regarding demographics of neighborhoods in other cities either. You mentioned St. Louis, How many times have you actually been to St. Louis if you don't mind me asking? For example, it certainly can be on the more segregated side (and it makes lists for this), but it also comes up very highly when looking by blocks: there are a lot of city neighborhoods that are about an even split between black and white for example.

Sorry to just end here, I'll write more soon, but I'm a bit wiped out and have to finish things before a trip tomorrow.
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