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View Poll Results: Which states do you believe belong in the Mid-Atlantic region?
New York 75 61.48%
New Jersey 87 71.31%
Pennsylvania 88 72.13%
Delaware 92 75.41%
Maryland 92 75.41%
Virginia 60 49.18%
West Virginia 25 20.49%
North Carolina 15 12.30%
Other (please specify) 4 3.28%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-28-2014, 10:24 PM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
3,986 posts, read 3,466,424 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Why is Delaware officially classified as a Southern state by the Census Bureau? I guess it is "painfully obvious" that the people at the Census Bureau are idiots and have never been to Delaware.
Lol Delaware is not southern sir. What point are you trying to prove?

It is however, VERY Mid-Atlantic.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:28 PM
 
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How would you classify the accent of southern Delaware and how does it differ from around Wilmington, Pine to Vine?

I'm of the view that Maryland is a Southern state, though obviously with some "northeastern" characteristics and that Maryland has more in common demographically with Virginia than any other state. Delaware is an oddball state IMO - Wilmington is near Philly and demographically similar, slave state where slavery became almost extinct by 1860, but certainly retaining some "Southern" characteristics long after that.

In terms of something like religion and ancestry, I don't think that's quite as important. After all Louisville was heavily German and I don't think that means it must be a Midwestern city and not a Southern city. Yes, white Protestants may be more Methodist than Baptist in DE/MD. That does mean they share similarities with the North but it doesn't disqualify it from being Southern IMO. I also don't think having some "white ethnics" (though a lower proportion of the 1930 population and of the white population today than every major city in NY/NJ/PA) makes Baltimore inherently "Northeastern" either. Being the largest city in the South and a major industrial city meant it was going to attract immigrants.

What I meant by "official and unofficial subregions" - I'm thinking of the Census Bureau classification of mid-Atlantic which is used to describe NY/NJ/PA. I don't know of any official body that declares DE/MD/VA to be part of a mid-Atlantic region, though the term is used colloquially. That's all I meant.
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:31 PM
 
2,253 posts, read 2,754,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
No need to be emotional just because you have no argument of any substance.
Can't you make your points without hurling insults?
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Old 08-28-2014, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,265,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
How would you classify the accent of southern Delaware and how does it differ from around Wilmington, Pine to Vine?

I'm of the view that Maryland is a Southern state, though obviously with some "northeastern" characteristics and that Maryland has more in common demographically with Virginia than any other state. Delaware is an oddball state IMO - Wilmington is near Philly and demographically similar, slave state where slavery became almost extinct by 1860, but certainly retaining some "Southern" characteristics long after that.

In terms of something like religion and ancestry, I don't think that's quite as important. After all Louisville was heavily German and I don't think that means it must be a Midwestern city and not a Southern city. Yes, white Protestants may be more Methodist than Baptist in DE/MD. That does mean they share similarities with the North but it doesn't disqualify it from being Southern IMO. I also don't think having some "white ethnics" (though a lower proportion of the 1930 population and of the white population today than every major city in NY/NJ/PA) makes Baltimore inherently "Northeastern" either. Being the largest city in the South and a major industrial city meant it was going to attract immigrants.

What I meant by "official and unofficial subregions" - I'm thinking of the Census Bureau classification of mid-Atlantic which is used to describe NY/NJ/PA. I don't know of any official body that declares DE/MD/VA to be part of a mid-Atlantic region, though the term is used colloquially. That's all I meant.
If you take a trip to Delaware today in 2014, you will not see much of a noticeable difference from PA or NJ. IT is effectively a region of NJ/PA/MD. In other words, the northeast. There is nothing southern about it. Your argument is akin to me saying that Toronto is a Quebecois city just because it was once territory of France. Your are saying that decisive evidence concerning culture, ancestry, region, economics, and poltics are not enough because of a handful of peripheral points you have. Give me a break. Delaware is solidly northeastern.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:35 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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The Baltimore area has a larger percentage of Germans than the Philly area, and a larger percentage of Irish than the NYC area. Also, Maryland's demographics are different from the rest of the south.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:51 PM
 
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Germans aren't particularly "Northeastern" though. A lot of people of German descent in the "border states" broadly defined.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:21 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Germans aren't particularly "Northeastern" though. A lot of people of German descent in the "border states" broadly defined.
There are Germans in Southeastern Brazil, having German immigrants does not "define" anything as far as location goes.
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Old 08-29-2014, 08:37 AM
 
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Delaware, Maryland and Washington DC. Virginia and West Virginia are in the Mid-Atlantic region.
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Old 08-29-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,864 posts, read 7,811,377 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
How would you classify the accent of southern Delaware and how does it differ from around Wilmington, Pine to Vine?
As to the other parts of this past, I won't argue. You've articulated why you hold the views that you do, Though I hold different views, I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I will respond to this above question, however. I am not a linguist, but if you look at Post 105, it does indeed indicate a subtle shift in accents as you cross south over the C&D Canal from Atlantic Midlands to Eastern Midlands accent. Note, it does not indicate this is a southern accent.

Terminology aside, I can hear such a shift. I grew up in Sussex County and left there at 18 for New Castle County. I did (and still do) hear a subtle shift in accents when I return there today and interact with my parents and their friends. The best I can say is that there is more of that "Maryland 'O'" running through their speech. But lingo like "wooder," "down the beach" and "you guys" prevail on both sides of the canal. To my ears, the accent below the canal is not southern, however, and I'll explain what I base that on. I left Newark for graduate school in Blacksburg, VA and there I heard a truly southern accent. And during those two years, I spent my summers on a project in Tidewater Virginia - a whole different kind of southern. I have traveled extensively, lived in Wilmington (twice), spent 26 years in Houston and have in-laws in SC. And after all of this experience, to my ears, I don't catch a southern accent in southern Delaware. As another poster said, if you were blindfolded and dropped in Vineland, I think you could easily mistake it for Dover. Now living in Philly myself and having friends in Vineland, I agree. And as it turns out, the accent map includes that part of South Jersey as having an Eastern Midlands accent, as does southern Delaware.

Finally, I will say a bit about African-American history. You are not the first poster I've read who seems to give that matter precedence when classifying a state as northern or southern. I'd suggest you read the link this quote come from: "In 1830, of the 3,568 Northern blacks who remained slaves, more than two-thirds were in New Jersey." http://www.city-data.com/forum/newre...ply&p=36281957. The link you provided on Delaware several posts back stated there were 1,798 slaves there at the start of the Civil War. So you tell me - which state is more "transitional?"

You seem like an interested poster trying to figure all of this out. Good for you - especially being Canadian. You have not answered if you have visited Delaware. I'm thinking not, but I might be wrong. Learning via the internet, in my view, can only get you so far. Thanks for taking the time to share your views on this thread (+1).
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:11 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
981 posts, read 621,980 times
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New York, New Jersey, Delaware and Pennsylvania are more Mid-Atlantic.
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