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View Poll Results: Which states do you believe belong in the Mid-Atlantic region?
New York 75 61.48%
New Jersey 87 71.31%
Pennsylvania 88 72.13%
Delaware 92 75.41%
Maryland 92 75.41%
Virginia 60 49.18%
West Virginia 25 20.49%
North Carolina 15 12.30%
Other (please specify) 4 3.28%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-08-2014, 08:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
This politician's (grew up in Bed-Stuy in the 50s) accent I can't notice anything distinguishable from typical white NYers of that generation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8voPuhXj9bY
He says he's the grandson of Caribbean immigrants. Assuming NYC's Black population was 25% Caribbean origin in 1930, when he was growing up the proportion of Blacks with Caribbean roots must have fallen to maybe 10% of the Black population, given that a lot of Southern blacks were pouring into the city. The Caribbean population and proportion of the Black population would of course surge after around 1970.

So I don't think the Caribbean presence explains "Northeastern exceptionalism." Philadelphia is also interesting. No significant Caribbean population and also a more "Northeastern" accent. The only explanation for that is that Philadelphia was already significantly more Black than most Northern cities in 1930, and I'm not sure if that's a good one.

Last edited by King of Kensington; 09-08-2014 at 08:52 PM..
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,264 posts, read 26,231,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
So I don't think the Caribbean presence explains the lack of AAVE.
There's no lack of AAVE in NYC, Philly or Boston. AAVE is simply the way you put words together. Most Black people--even well-educated Black people--switch back and forth between AAVE and standard English all the time.

What Boston and NYC AAs have--and to a lesser extent Philadelphia--are obvious linguistic features they share with ethnic whites. And as I said, it's not just Blacks. It's often Hispanics and even some Asians who share these features.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:53 PM
 
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Corrected.
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Old 09-08-2014, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,264 posts, read 26,231,676 times
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Speaking of switching from standard English to AAVE at the drop of a hat.


Reporter turns ghetto in 3 seconds - YouTube
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
I don't think that's necessarily true. Northeastern cities like Philadelphia have traditionally been very racially segregated. Philly was just about as racially segregated as cities like Chicago were.
That's not really accurate. See nei's post below.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/32943850-post194.html

Last edited by BajanYankee; 09-08-2014 at 09:52 PM..
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:38 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidphilly View Post
not so much gaelic. Lots of Hebrew (maybe not as first language) and still a fair amount of Italian

I grew up with Italian as common for Sunday dinner - wish I retained more to be honest

and yes one difference to me compared to a DC is there are still Philly where these languages are common, though most will speak english equally or first
I doubt that 90% of Italian Americans or Jewish Americans excluding 1st generation immigrants speak anything other than English as the most common language at home and among relatives. A large percentage of them have also intermarried with Americans of other ethnicities.

Mark Zuckerberg is what a typical Jewish American looks and talks like. (Well, except that he is obscenely wealthy and an atheist but his parents are Jewish and from New York).
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I doubt that 90% of Italian Americans or Jewish Americans excluding 1st generation immigrants speak anything other than English as the most common language at home and among relatives. A large percentage of them have also intermarried with Americans of other ethnicities.

Mark Zuckerberg is what a typical Jewish American looks and talks like. (Well, except that he is obscenely wealthy and an atheist but his parents are Jewish and from New York).
I don't understand your point. Is your point simply that all of these people are highly assimilated, which therefore makes them no different from the people in DC, which then makes DC and NYC bosom buddies? Yay for you!

Assimilation and ethnic/cultural consciousness are not mutually exclusive. In New York, the overwhelming majority of Jews have obviously assimilated in terms of speech, dress, etc. Many have even intermarried, as you said. But collective cultural identity among Jews in NYC is still very high and New York City is one of the main centers (if not the primary center) of Jewish cultural life. It's largely self-evident. Just read the New York Times.

As the late Ed Koch said in this interview.

Quote:
I was always very conscious that I was Jewish. And it wasn’t anti-Semitism that caused that. I was conscious that I was Jewish and very proud of it.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ype=blogs&_r=0

The same thing applies to the Italians and the Irish. The large populations reinforce a very strong collective, cultural identity. In cities with smaller populations, that identity might not last beyond a single generation.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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I will try to find the article for the link below later. Here's an excerpt from the abstract.

The persistence of white ethnicity in New England politics

Quote:
Although the settlement patterns of the more established and numerous nationality groups (i.e. Irish and Italians) are less associated with partisanship than they were 50 years ago, the political salience of white ethnicity persists, suggesting that ethnic groups do not simply dealign or politically “assimilate” over time. Some groups maintain a strong identity in spite of upward mobility because movement from city to suburbs is selected not just on housing, income or school characteristics, as is usually the case, but on ethnicity too. Towns with significant concentrations of specific European ancestry groups lean Republican, even after we have accounted for the presence of other sources of political leaning and past voting tendencies, while Democratic attachments are undeniably strong in towns where the newer immigrant groups have settled. The “new ethnicity” (i.e. racial minorities) and the “old ethnicity” (i.e. white ethnics) clearly carry distinct political implications for this region's presidential politics.
One point the author makes in the article is that the township model of government in New England, as opposed to a county-based model, reinforces ethnic consciousness. That's because many White Ethnics are able to move into relatively homogenous towns and exercise a greater degree of political autonomy than they would under a county model. In these towns, the author notes, the "Irishness" or "Italianess" of political candidates tends to receive greater emphasis than in other parts of the country.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,264 posts, read 26,231,676 times
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Another thing New York and Philadelphia are both known for are our pretzels. Philadelphia used to be home of the Pretzel Museum. It must be noted, however, that Philly makes considerably better pretzels than NYC.

A pair of Philadelphians are bringing their city's style of pretzel to Brooklyn - NY Daily News

Too bad they're closed today. A soft pretzel with hot mustard would really hit the spot.
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Old 09-17-2014, 08:27 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 27 days ago)
 
620 posts, read 687,250 times
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I considered the eastern parts of Maryland (anything east of Washington, DC), Delaware and southern parts of New Jersey (anything south of the Mason-Dixon line that is still part of New Jersey) quintessentially Mid-Atlantic. But when I have to use states as building blocks, I considered NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, DC, WV and VA as the Mid-Atlantic states.
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