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View Poll Results: Southernmost northeastern state
New Jersey 29 23.58%
Pennsylvania 14 11.38%
Delaware 7 5.69%
Maryland 45 36.59%
West Virginia 11 8.94%
Virginia 17 13.82%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-06-2014, 01:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Actually the land VA gave to make DC is no longer DC since the civil war. What is now Arlington was once part of Virginias land that was given to DC. I also find the claim that VA is not south of MD rather dubious.
I have to correct myself by saying that I was including original Virginia in this, which would now be WV as well. And WV is definitely Southern.

But I stand corrected on the comment about DC. Did not know that.
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Old 09-06-2014, 01:26 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Maryland is the south therefore Virginia is the south.
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Old 09-06-2014, 05:35 PM
 
620 posts, read 688,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Maryland is the south therefore Virginia is the south.
Then why Maryland is more similar to Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware than Maryland is to North Carolina?
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Old 09-06-2014, 07:53 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 778,006 times
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When I joined CD two or so years ago MD was the center of the North/South argument. That argument is still going on threads here and there and MD is still the main point of contention.

At some point during the argument someone will come along and explain cultural transition areas, and then we'll have an argument over where the transitional area starts and ends. Eventually people will tire and the thread will die. Then someone will revive or make a new thread about the North/South border, and the discussion will inevitably end up focusing on MD again, thus repeating the cycle.

As for the poll itself, I think the most popular answers (NJ or MD) are the most reasonable answers with fair arguments to both sides.
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:54 PM
 
620 posts, read 688,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
When I joined CD two or so years ago MD was the center of the North/South argument. That argument is still going on threads here and there and MD is still the main point of contention.

At some point during the argument someone will come along and explain cultural transition areas, and then we'll have an argument over where the transitional area starts and ends. Eventually people will tire and the thread will die. Then someone will revive or make a new thread about the North/South border, and the discussion will inevitably end up focusing on MD again, thus repeating the cycle.

As for the poll itself, I think the most popular answers (NJ or MD) are the most reasonable answers with fair arguments to both sides.
I saw over 100 threads about Maryland being Northern or Southern on this site alone. This includes Baltimore and Washington being Northern or Southern cities. If I had to choose between Northern and Southern, I will call Maryland a northern state.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
Then why Maryland is more similar to Pennsylvania, New Jersey and Delaware than Maryland is to North Carolina?
These are subjective terms. What do you mean by similar? Similar in terms of WHAT?

Weather wise, Maryland is in a transitional zone where it can have climate in common with Northeastern AND Southern states. Towson, for example has 9 inches of snow annually and is in humid subtropical climate zone. Many parts of the Northeast are humid continental, with the exception of coastal cities like New York and Philly. But, Maryland like the South has moderate snowfall, and hot/humid summers.

Culturally, is Maryland Northeastern? I don't know. I feel like MD is full of so many transplants that culturally it's not really anything these days. But if you go to Montgomery county fair, MD definitely seems more like the South than it does the NE.

Linguistically, one could say MD is neither NE nor Southern, but in a transition point as well. Its linguistics share commonalities with Philly (NE) but also Virginia (South). So I ask, if Philly shares linguistics with Baltimore does that make Philly Southern? I don't think so. People think there is a universal Southern accent. There isn't. Neither is there a universal Northeast accent. Also, we must remember the Tidewater and Appalachian accents present in MD, and these definitely have "Southern" characteristics. Even the Baltimore accent has characteristics seen in Appalachia, such the use of "worsh" for wash, "arn" for "iron". Elsewhere in the South, you hear "dayown" for "down", "pilla and potaytah" for pillow and potato. These are heard in Baltimore's accent. To say that Baltimore's accent is fully Northeastern is not accurate by any means. The commonalities between Baltimore English and other Southern accents are there; it's not even a question.

By the way, I use Baltimore in my examples because it is the city that is used as a "proof-text" that Maryland is anything but Southern.

Food-wise, Baltimore is a combo of both NE and Southern traditions. Seafood doesn't make it NE, it makes it coastal no more than Seattle or New Orleans people eating seafood makes them Northeastern. Pit beef and chicken boxes give Baltimore a Southern feel, whereas Sauerkraut (eaten a lot in the Midwest), Polock Sausages (Midwest and other non-Southern cities), just give Baltimore a hodge podge of cultures seen in...wait for it...any big city no matter where.

Maryland is definitely in a transition zone. But so is Texas. Texas has Southwestern influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Texas has Mexican influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Maryland has Appalachian, Northeastern, and even Midwestern influences in its culture and...

It's still Southern.
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Old 09-09-2014, 10:55 AM
 
4,802 posts, read 3,857,540 times
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Is Baltimore A Southern City | Are we Northern? Southern? Yes. - Baltimore Sun

In the above article, the best way to prove Maryland is Southern is in its lack of Southern culture. Because to people who want to believe MD is Northeastern, the South is too backwards, prejudiced, and evil for MD to ever want to be a part of that.

So the best argument that MD NE proponents can use is the feelings argument. We don't "feel" Southern. We don't "like" Southern. As if there was some universal Southern way of thinking of universal feeling Southerners have about being from Dixie.

Is Wendy Davis not a true Texan, then?
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:29 AM
 
12,698 posts, read 10,535,014 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
These are subjective terms. What do you mean by similar? Similar in terms of WHAT?

Weather wise, Maryland is in a transitional zone where it can have climate in common with Northeastern AND Southern states. Towson, for example has 9 inches of snow annually and is in humid subtropical climate zone. Many parts of the Northeast are humid continental, with the exception of coastal cities like New York and Philly. But, Maryland like the South has moderate snowfall, and hot/humid summers.

Culturally, is Maryland Northeastern? I don't know. I feel like MD is full of so many transplants that culturally it's not really anything these days. But if you go to Montgomery county fair, MD definitely seems more like the South than it does the NE.

Linguistically, one could say MD is neither NE nor Southern, but in a transition point as well. Its linguistics share commonalities with Philly (NE) but also Virginia (South). So I ask, if Philly shares linguistics with Baltimore does that make Philly Southern? I don't think so. People think there is a universal Southern accent. There isn't. Neither is there a universal Northeast accent. Also, we must remember the Tidewater and Appalachian accents present in MD, and these definitely have "Southern" characteristics. Even the Baltimore accent has characteristics seen in Appalachia, such the use of "worsh" for wash, "arn" for "iron". Elsewhere in the South, you hear "dayown" for "down", "pilla and potaytah" for pillow and potato. These are heard in Baltimore's accent. To say that Baltimore's accent is fully Northeastern is not accurate by any means. The commonalities between Baltimore English and other Southern accents are there; it's not even a question.

By the way, I use Baltimore in my examples because it is the city that is used as a "proof-text" that Maryland is anything but Southern.

Food-wise, Baltimore is a combo of both NE and Southern traditions. Seafood doesn't make it NE, it makes it coastal no more than Seattle or New Orleans people eating seafood makes them Northeastern. Pit beef and chicken boxes give Baltimore a Southern feel, whereas Sauerkraut (eaten a lot in the Midwest), Polock Sausages (Midwest and other non-Southern cities), just give Baltimore a hodge podge of cultures seen in...wait for it...any big city no matter where.

Maryland is definitely in a transition zone. But so is Texas. Texas has Southwestern influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Texas has Mexican influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Maryland has Appalachian, Northeastern, and even Midwestern influences in its culture and...

It's still Southern.
Great post! +1
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Hampton Roads, VA.
867 posts, read 1,090,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Is Baltimore A Southern City | Are we Northern? Southern? Yes. - Baltimore Sun

In the above article, the best way to prove Maryland is Southern is in its lack of Southern culture. Because to people who want to believe MD is Northeastern, the South is too backwards, prejudiced, and evil for MD to ever want to be a part of that.

So the best argument that MD NE proponents can use is the feelings argument. We don't "feel" Southern. We don't "like" Southern. As if there was some universal Southern way of thinking of universal feeling Southerners have about being from Dixie.

Is Wendy Davis not a true Texan, then?
Those are the problems. Everyone doesn't consider themselves a part of or being from "dixie" ....that is the mindstate of confederates...and if they are defining the "South" then theres not gonna be the same states throwin their hat in the "Southern" group fair. That is political talk and as it relates to culture does not represent all of "the South" of today (which is why there are even more regional descriptive terms)...and never was an official term for the South...so people are not going to relate to that or want anything to do with that...thus identifying with their own identities, being a region unto themselves.
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Old 09-09-2014, 11:33 AM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,749 posts, read 6,162,756 times
Reputation: 3601
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
These are subjective terms. What do you mean by similar? Similar in terms of WHAT?

Weather wise, Maryland is in a transitional zone where it can have climate in common with Northeastern AND Southern states. Towson, for example has 9 inches of snow annually and is in humid subtropical climate zone. Many parts of the Northeast are humid continental, with the exception of coastal cities like New York and Philly. But, Maryland like the South has moderate snowfall, and hot/humid summers.

Culturally, is Maryland Northeastern? I don't know. I feel like MD is full of so many transplants that culturally it's not really anything these days. But if you go to Montgomery county fair, MD definitely seems more like the South than it does the NE.

Linguistically, one could say MD is neither NE nor Southern, but in a transition point as well. Its linguistics share commonalities with Philly (NE) but also Virginia (South). So I ask, if Philly shares linguistics with Baltimore does that make Philly Southern? I don't think so. People think there is a universal Southern accent. There isn't. Neither is there a universal Northeast accent. Also, we must remember the Tidewater and Appalachian accents present in MD, and these definitely have "Southern" characteristics. Even the Baltimore accent has characteristics seen in Appalachia, such the use of "worsh" for wash, "arn" for "iron". Elsewhere in the South, you hear "dayown" for "down", "pilla and potaytah" for pillow and potato. These are heard in Baltimore's accent. To say that Baltimore's accent is fully Northeastern is not accurate by any means. The commonalities between Baltimore English and other Southern accents are there; it's not even a question.

By the way, I use Baltimore in my examples because it is the city that is used as a "proof-text" that Maryland is anything but Southern.

Food-wise, Baltimore is a combo of both NE and Southern traditions. Seafood doesn't make it NE, it makes it coastal no more than Seattle or New Orleans people eating seafood makes them Northeastern. Pit beef and chicken boxes give Baltimore a Southern feel, whereas Sauerkraut (eaten a lot in the Midwest), Polock Sausages (Midwest and other non-Southern cities), just give Baltimore a hodge podge of cultures seen in...wait for it...any big city no matter where.

Maryland is definitely in a transition zone. But so is Texas. Texas has Southwestern influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Texas has Mexican influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Maryland has Appalachian, Northeastern, and even Midwestern influences in its culture and...

It's still Southern.
Towson averages 25.6 inches of snow annually.
Maryland averages 20 inches as a state

By contrast, NJ averages 23 inches as a state.

Also: Baltimore accent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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