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View Poll Results: Southernmost northeastern state
New Jersey 29 23.58%
Pennsylvania 14 11.38%
Delaware 7 5.69%
Maryland 45 36.59%
West Virginia 11 8.94%
Virginia 17 13.82%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-09-2014, 12:28 PM
 
12,684 posts, read 10,505,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
Towson averages 25.6 inches of snow annually.
Maryland averages 20 inches as a state

By contrast, NJ averages 23 inches as a state.

Also: Baltimore accent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I don't like going by state averages, mainly because the coast screws it up. Coastal and southern NJ does not get NEARLY as much snow as inland and northern, especially the NW corner of the state where there are mountains, and it skews results. Going by city is better IMO - Newark, Baltimore, DC, NYC, Philly, etc.
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Maryland is definitely in a transition zone. But so is Texas. Texas has Southwestern influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Texas has Mexican influences in its culture, but Texas is still Southern. Maryland has Appalachian, Northeastern, and even Midwestern influences in its culture and...

It's still Southern.
Would Western Pennsylvania and New York count as transition zones? Would they be fully Northeastern, Midwestern, both or neither?
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: PG County, MD
582 posts, read 776,759 times
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About dialects:
The Baltimore accent is a Mid-Atlantic dialect of English closely related to the Philidelphia dialect with some inland southern features due to the migration into the city from the Appalachian south. There's not much debate on that point.

Most of MD isn't part of the core area of any particular dialect. The Atlas of North American English lists features of all nearby dialects being found in parts of MD, and in dialect maps the state is usually divided between the Mid-Atlantic, South Midland, and Southern (Tidewater accent specifically). The most prominent dialect in the state before local speech became standardized was Tidewater.

All regions, especially the South, have undergone significant "midlandization" especially among newer generations because of the prominence of the Midland dialect as the standard. What people often forget though, is that the Midland dialect, despite being the standard is not Northeastern. The "standard" variety of Midland is found in the lower Midwest, and is most closely related to Western Pennsylvanian and South Midland (which is also known as Inland/Appalachian Southern). The Midland Dialect is equally unrelated to Northeastern and Southern Dialects and is believed to have originated in Western PA, MD, and VA.
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Old 09-09-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,524 posts, read 2,263,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Weather wise, Maryland is in a transitional zone where it can have climate in common with Northeastern AND Southern states. Towson, for example has 9 inches of snow annually and is in humid subtropical climate zone. Many parts of the Northeast are humid continental, with the exception of coastal cities like New York and Philly. But, Maryland like the South has moderate snowfall, and hot/humid summers.
Do you have a source for Towson only recieving 9 inches of snow annually? I find it hard to believe that a city located between Baltimore and Philadelphia recieves less than half the snowfall of either city.

Part of Maryland is humid subtropical, and part is continental. It resembles New Jersey in this aspect, and to a lesser extent Pennsylvania.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Linguistically, one could say MD is neither NE nor Southern, but in a transition point as well. Its linguistics share commonalities with Philly (NE) but also Virginia (South). So I ask, if Philly shares linguistics with Baltimore does that make Philly Southern? I don't think so. People think there is a universal Southern accent. There isn't. Neither is there a universal Northeast accent. Also, we must remember the Tidewater and Appalachian accents present in MD, and these definitely have "Southern" characteristics. Even the Baltimore accent has characteristics seen in Appalachia, such the use of "worsh" for wash, "arn" for "iron". Elsewhere in the South, you hear "dayown" for "down", "pilla and potaytah" for pillow and potato. These are heard in Baltimore's accent. To say that Baltimore's accent is fully Northeastern is not accurate by any means. The commonalities between Baltimore English and other Southern accents are there; it's not even a question.
Eddie, leading linguists such as William lablov place Baltimore in a unique linguistic region with Philadelphia, Wilmington and Southern New Jersey. If one drives from Towson to York or Lancaster, the accent is the same; drive to Charlottesville or Roanoke, and it is markedly different. During the same drive one might also deduce that Philadelphia.is not a coastal city.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
In the above article, the best way to prove Maryland is Southern is in its lack of Southern culture. Because to people who want to believe MD is Northeastern, the South is too backwards, prejudiced, and evil for MD to ever want to be a part of that.

So the best argument that MD NE proponents can use is the feelings argument. We don't "feel" Southern. We don't "like" Southern. As if there was some universal Southern way of thinking of universal feeling Southerners have about being from Dixie.
I haven`t seen anyone make such arguments. Can you point out someone making these claims?

Given the choice I would choose to identify as a southerner and not a northerner, but given the evidence it is a rather comical claim. Look at maps of ancestry, religion, language, politics, and economy, and Maryland is clearly grouped with Pennsylvania, South Jersey, and the Northeast Corridor. I think the fact that most people consider MD the southernmost state of the northeast is indicative of this.

Eddie, I encourage you to double check your facts. First you claimed Virginia is not south of MD. You also incorrectly asserted that DC is on Virginia`s land. It hasn`t been since 1861. Now you are presenting wildly inaccurate snowfall numbers for Maryland cities and making further incorrect claims about the local dialects.
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbesdj View Post
Eddie, leading linguists such as William lablov place Baltimore in a unique linguistic region with Philadelphia, Wilmington and Southern New Jersey. If one drives from Towson to York or Lancaster, the accent is the same; drive to Charlottesville or Roanoke, and it is markedly different. During the same drive one might also deduce that Philadelphia.is not a coastal city.
You didn't even ackowledge his point about Tidewater and Southern Appalachian influences on the Baltimore accent. It's as if the hundreds of thousands of White Southerners who migrated to Baltimore never happened. That's why the same linguists you note say that the Baltimore accent "has a distinct southern character."
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Old 09-09-2014, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,242,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
All regions, especially the South, have undergone significant "midlandization" especially among newer generations because of the prominence of the Midland dialect as the standard. What people often forget though, is that the Midland dialect, despite being the standard is not Northeastern. The "standard" variety of Midland is found in the lower Midwest, and is most closely related to Western Pennsylvanian and South Midland (which is also known as Inland/Appalachian Southern). The Midland Dialect is equally unrelated to Northeastern and Southern Dialects and is believed to have originated in Western PA, MD, and VA.
So, in other words, people in Maryland sound like they could be from anywhere (because the people you meet there could literally be from anywhere)?
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:01 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,144,011 times
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I'd like to get a better understanding of the accents of MD's Eastern Shore. I've met a group of women, and none of them had southern accents, yet all were born and raised in the Salisbury, MD area. I've met people who grew up in Ocean City, Maryland with no discernible southern accent. However, my question is, since MD is a southern state, wouldn't any accent in any region of Maryland be considered southern?
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:09 PM
Status: "Retired" (set 29 days ago)
 
620 posts, read 687,505 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I'd like to get a better understanding of the accents of MD's Eastern Shore. I've met a group of women, and none of them had southern accents, yet all were born and raised in the Salisbury, MD area. I've met people who grew up in Ocean City, Maryland with no discernible southern accent. However, my question is, since MD is a southern state, wouldn't any accent in any region of Maryland be considered southern?
MD is a northern state. The people you met in Southern Maryland has Mid-Atlantic accents that are similar to the rest of Maryland, Delaware and Southern New Jersey.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:14 PM
 
12,684 posts, read 10,505,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muppethammer26 View Post
MD is a northern state. The people you met in Southern Maryland has Mid-Atlantic accents that are similar to the rest of Maryland, Delaware and Southern New Jersey.
South Jersey has a more Philly inspired accent - maybe DE, too but I doubt MD. They may be similar but they're not the same.

"Wooder" for water, for example, is a Philly/South Jersey thing. I wonder if people in MD would pronounce it the same.
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Old 09-09-2014, 02:21 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
7,742 posts, read 6,144,011 times
Reputation: 3590
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
South Jersey has a more Philly inspired accent - maybe DE, too but I doubt MD. They may be similar but they're not the same.

"Wooder" for water, for example, is a Philly/South Jersey thing. I wonder if people in MD would pronounce it the same.
"wooder" is one of the indentifiers of a Baltimore accent. also, "Warsh" for wash, the way the 0's are pronounced, the way the days of the week are pronounced: sundee, mundee,tuesdee...etc, are all staples of the Baltimore accent.

http://phillytalk.com/philly-slang
http://www.baltimorehon.com/

You'll see a ton of the same pronounciations between both cities.

Last edited by KodeBlue; 09-09-2014 at 02:33 PM..
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