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View Poll Results: Southernmost northeastern state
New Jersey 29 23.58%
Pennsylvania 14 11.38%
Delaware 7 5.69%
Maryland 45 36.59%
West Virginia 11 8.94%
Virginia 17 13.82%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-09-2014, 08:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tezcatlipoca View Post
Well to answer seriously, the northeast of MD has a similar accent to Philly, south Jersey, and upper DE. The rest doesn't really.
Which makes sense and is what I figured.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:10 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Also, Pittsburgh and Buffalo took off as cites before Cleveland and Chicago etc. so it's a little strange to hear the argument that they're "influenced by the Midwest" - wouldn't it be apt to say that that the Great Lakes part of the Midwest is an extension of earlier development in Upstate NY from Erie Canal times? I haven't been to Pittsburgh, but from what I've seen it still has that common "Pennsylvania look" and doesn't really resemble Cleveland region. It seems like an interesting crossroads of Northeastern and Appalachian culture.

Also, I'm pretty sure the influence of NYC looms much larger in Buffalo than Chicago does. The largest SUNY campus is in Buffalo and surely at least some downstaters stay in the area after college. I don't know the answer to this one, but I would guess more go to NYC than Chicago if they decide to move to the "big city." I know there are large numbers of young people go from Indiana, Iowa etc. that go to Chicago - but are there Western New Yorkers doing that as well?
Yes, I agree with this. Many of these cities from Upstate New York out to the western Great Lakes began to take off because of something called the Erie Canal. The Canal was started in 1817 and completed in 1825. If you look at the demographics of Rochester, Buffalo, Cleveland, Detroit etc. you will see that they really began to take off the decade from 1820 to 1830 and also from 1830 to 1840. That is because they began to be used as ports using the canal to ship to the Atlantic.

I think the reason some people say that Buffalo and Pittsburgh look Midwestern (despite the fact that I have yet to see someone actually from those cities who actually agrees with it) is because they have the stereotype of the Northeast as just the Bos-Wash corridor.

So like you say, you can actually say that part of the Midwest looks like the Northeast!
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:30 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
45,992 posts, read 42,058,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post

I think the reason some people say that Buffalo and Pittsburgh look Midwestern (despite the fact that I have yet to see someone actually from those cities who actually agrees with it) is because they have the stereotype of the Northeast as just the Bos-Wash corridor.
Not really. New England cities has a distinctive look: ungridded, rather compact. Eastern PA cities tend to be rather dense and have rowhouses. Pittsburgh doesn't really look that Midwestern, particularly its row house areas. Buffalo looks rather similar to other Great Lakes cities. Note Buffalo and Rochester are much more Italian-American than anywhere in the Midwest except maybe Cleveland.

Here's the pop / soda map, which places some of PA and NY with the Midwest:

http://www.thewire.com/technology/20...uistics/54344/
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:44 PM
 
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Some population figures ca. 1830:

Rochester 9,207
Buffalo 8,668
Detroit 2,222
Cleveland about 1,000
Chicago about 600

On the Canadian side, York (now Toronto) had 3,969.

ca. 1840:

Rochester 20,191
Buffalo 18,213
Toronto 14,249
Detroit 9,102
Cleveland 6,071
Chicago 4,470

ca. 1850:

Buffalo 42,261
Rochester 36,403
Toronto 30,775
Chicago 29,963
Detroit 21,019
Cleveland 17,034

Chicago would of course surge past the rest after 1850.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:47 PM
 
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2 views on Buffalo's "midwestern-ness":

ON BEING MIDWESTERN

ArchitectureChicago PLUS: Buffalo and Chicago: Sister Cities in Architecture and Preservation (But only one has a scorecard)
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:48 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nei View Post
Not really. New England cities has a distinctive look: ungridded, rather compact. Eastern PA cities tend to be rather dense and have rowhouses. Pittsburgh doesn't really look that Midwestern, particularly its row house areas. Buffalo looks rather similar to other Great Lakes cities. Note Buffalo and Rochester are much more Italian-American than anywhere in the Midwest except maybe Cleveland.

Here's the pop / soda map, which places some of PA and NY with the Midwest:

Soda vs. Pop: Twitter Is Pretty Good at Linguistics - The Wire
Not really? You have not seen people equate the Northeast as the Bos-Wash corridor here on City-Data???
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:51 PM
 
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They usually include all of New England though. Even rural New England is seen as "good" in that it's quaint, liberal and more educated, has town meetings etc., therefore Northeastern.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:57 PM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
7,141 posts, read 9,925,452 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Kensington View Post
Some population figures ca. 1830:

Rochester 9,207
Buffalo 8,668
Detroit 2,222
Cleveland about 1,000
Chicago about 600

On the Canadian side, York (now Toronto) had 3,969.

ca. 1840:

Rochester 20,191
Buffalo 18,213
Toronto 14,249
Detroit 9,102
Cleveland 6,071
Chicago 4,470

ca. 1850:

Buffalo 42,261
Rochester 36,403
Toronto 30,775
Chicago 29,963
Detroit 21,019
Cleveland 17,034

Chicago would of course surge past the rest after 1850.
Exactly.

These cities began to take off and roughly the same time, although the New York cities had a head start. And they were populated by people coming through New York and Pennsylvania - not the other way around. So in some ways we should be saying that the older Midwestern cities look like the Northeast, not the other way around.

Of course in reality, railroads, people, steel mills, big business etc. do not care about our regional lines and they will go where ever it makes sense to them.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:59 PM
 
Location: BMORE!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
Which makes sense and is what I figured.
I posted link of both cities' accent dictionary, and they pronounce many of the words the same way.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,284 posts, read 26,292,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KodeBlue View Post
I posted link of both cities' accent dictionary, and they pronounce many of the words the same way.
Quote:
Baltimore's dialect shares many characteristic pronunciations and words with its northern neighbor Philadelphia. One of these is the long o in words like home, which is very fronted, pronounced something like eh-oo. Otherwise, as we might expect, Baltimore's speech shows a distinctly Southern character.
The Mid-Atlantic Dialects

It's true that Philadelphia and Baltimore pronounce certain words the same way. The difference is that Baltimore's speech "shows a distinctly Southern character."
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