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View Poll Results: Southernmost northeastern state
New Jersey 29 23.58%
Pennsylvania 14 11.38%
Delaware 7 5.69%
Maryland 45 36.59%
West Virginia 11 8.94%
Virginia 17 13.82%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2014, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,860 posts, read 7,809,283 times
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Apparently linguists disagree:



http://aschmann.net/AmEng/index_coll...shDialects.png

This fellow characterizes Baltimore as having a an Atlantic Midlands accent, which it shares with Philly and Trenton.(A click on the link will take you to a larger map.)
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Apparently linguists disagree:



http://aschmann.net/AmEng/index_coll...shDialects.png

This fellow characterizes Baltimore as having a an Atlantic Midlands accent, which it shares with Philly and Trenton.(A click on the link will take you to a larger map.)
That's just a map. There's no analysis or commentary. And the commentary and analysis I provided indicates that "Baltimore's speech has a distinctly southern character."

You can't cherrypick linguistic studies. Can we agree that "Bawlmerese" and "Philadelphian" have similarities? Sure! Can we agree that "Baltimore's speech has a distinctly southern character?" Apparently, we can't....because you guys would die before ever admitting that.

We'll just add that to the list of things that have to be ignored or dismissed to shoehorn Baltimore/Maryland into the Northeast.

1. U.S. Census (argument is that it's not dispositive)
2. Slave holding state (irrelevant...all states had slaves)
3. Large Black population (so what? So does Detroit)
4. Jim Crow State (and? All states discriminated)
4. Low White Ethnic population compared to NE states (that doesn't define the Northeast!)
5. Historians consistently placing Maryland in the "Upper South" (things have changed!)
6. Maryland being a member of the Southern Legislative Conference and SGA (Puerto Rico's a member!)
7. UNC Focus Poll showing 40% of Marylanders say they live in the South (Still not a majority!)

That's a lot of things we have to dismiss.
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Old 09-10-2014, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,860 posts, read 7,809,283 times
Reputation: 9487
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
That's just a map. There's no analysis or commentary.
Here's the full study: American English Dialects. Read it at your leisure.

As to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
You can't cherrypick linguistic studies.
Then why can you?

And this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
We'll just add that to the list of things that have to be ignored or dismissed to shoehorn Baltimore/Maryland into the Northeast.

1. U.S. Census (argument is that it's not dispositive)
2. Slave holding state (irrelevant...all states had slaves)
3. Large Black population (so what? So does Detroit)
4. Jim Crow State (and? All states discriminated)
4. Low White Ethnic population compared to NE states (that doesn't define the Northeast!)
5. Historians consistently placing Maryland in the "Upper South" (things have changed!)
6. Maryland being a member of the Southern Legislative Conference and SGA (Puerto Rico's a member!)
7. UNC Focus Poll showing 40% of Marylanders say they live in the South (Still not a majority!)
Thanks. That's a nice summary.

And finally:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Apparently, we can't....because you guys would die before ever admitting that.
You seem to think there is a group of people working together. There is no conspiracy Bajan. It's simply that there are posters on CD who disagree with you (which seems inexplicably difficult for you to believe or accept).
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:03 AM
 
11,177 posts, read 22,388,331 times
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The answer is either New Jersey or Maryland, depending on how you define the mid-atlantic and it's place in the Northeast.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Then why can you?
I didn't. I fully accept the studies you presented. Baltimore and Philadelphia have a similar dialect. Now do you accept this statement?

Otherwise, as we might expect, Baltimore's speech has a distinctly Southern character.

I won't hold my breath. My guess is that you'll ignore it or come up with some type of pretzel logic to dismiss it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
And this:

Thanks. That's a nice summary.

And finally:

You seem to think there is a group of people working together. There is no conspiracy Bajan. It's simply that there are posters on CD who disagree with you (which seems inexplicably difficult for you to believe or accept).
You're entitled to have whatever opinion you want. I only said there's a lot of things we have to dismiss to shoehorn Maryland into the Northeast. I mean, I feel that we should add Virginia to the Northeast (Ohio, too, since it has more Italians than Maryland), but there's obviously a lot of history and objective data that makes my argument problematic. Nonetheless, it's still my opinion, and it's as valid as any other opinion on here.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
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I think a good compromise would be to say that Maryland is 40% Southern and 60% "un-southern," Mid-Atlantic or Northeastern. That's what the polling data would suggest.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,860 posts, read 7,809,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Otherwise, as we might expect, Baltimore's speech has a distinctly Southern character.

I won't hold my breath. My guess is that you'll ignore it or come up with some type of pretzel logic to dismiss it.
I don't hear it. Of course, that may be explained that the fact that I grew up in an area (according to this study) with an East Midlands accent. I had a ton of relatives in Baltimore and to me, if anything, they sounded a bit more northern. I am not sure where you grew up (NYC or environs is my guess), but if so, that might account for how the accent hits our ears differently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Nonetheless, it's still my opinion, and it's as valid as any other opinion on here.
Progress.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
I don't hear it. Of course, that may be explained that the fact that I grew up in an area (according to this study) with an East Midlands accent. I had a ton of relatives in Baltimore and to me, if anything, they sounded a bit more northern. I am not sure where you grew up (NYC or environs is my guess), but if so, that might account for how the accent hits our ears differently.
So I guess you opted for dismissal (or avoidance). Or is it simply that you accept the parts of the studies you agree with but reject the parts you don't agree with?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
Progress.
Indeed.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Center City
6,860 posts, read 7,809,283 times
Reputation: 9487
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
So I guess you opted for dismissal (or avoidance). Or is it simply that you accept the parts of the studies you agree with but reject the parts you don't agree with?
I've offered my views on this thread topic. And . . . I've gone over them in greater detail in other recent related threads.

This whole topic seems to be a hobby horse for you. Not so with me.
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Old 09-10-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,258,197 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pine to Vine View Post
I've offered my views on this thread topic. And . . . I've gone over them in greater detail in other recent related threads.

This whole topic seems to be a hobby horse for you. Not so with me.
Okay, so you don't agree with it, therefore you reject it. That's a very open mind you've got there.

BTW, I'm Philadelphia Born and Raised.
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