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View Poll Results: Southernmost northeastern state
New Jersey 29 23.58%
Pennsylvania 14 11.38%
Delaware 7 5.69%
Maryland 45 36.59%
West Virginia 11 8.94%
Virginia 17 13.82%
Voters: 123. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-24-2014, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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More evidence of Philadelphia's southerness.

Quote:
Philadelphia has been described as a sleepy southern town and a commercial-industrial center. With cities to the south, it shares longstanding trade routes, a relaxed pace of life, and a history deeply informed by slavery, Jim Crow, and the cultural influence of a centuries-old African American population. With cities to the north, it shares a history of industrialization (and deindustrialization) along with the ethnic diversity that comes from being a major port of immigration.
People often remark on Philadelphia's relaxed pace of life.

Quote:
Yet the pace of life remained slower than other industrial cities, and the city retained a small-town feel.
True dat.

Quote:
After the Civil War, Philadelphia continued to be a place of convergence and occasional conflict: an ethnically diverse, industrial, East Coast seaport with a recognizably southern disposition.
True.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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Culturally, though not historically, I think you'd have to say that Virginia is the southernmost northeastern state. If you elect a flaming liberal like Terry McAuliffe to statewide office, then no, you're not a southern state.

And it's not just NOVA that voted for McAuliffe by huge margins. McAuliffe destroyed Cuccinelli in Henrico County, winning by a larger margin than he did in Loudoun and Prince William. Henrico County has roughly the same proportion of African Americans as Alexandria (and has a higher White % overall) so it wasn't the Black vote skewing the results.

I imagine that many suburban Virginia counties are going to do what suburban DC/MD counties did. For example, George W. Bush won Frederick and Anne Arundel Counties in 2000. These counties are now firmly Obama-Clinton territory and their Republican-voting track record has been swept into the dustbin of history.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/wp-...ctoral-map.jpg

We better get used to seeing this map on Election Night. Virginia is only going to turn a darker shade of blue. If Dems can win Virginia in a non-presidential election year, when turnout is always lower, then Republicans have absolutely no hope of stopping a Hillary Clinton juggernaut. Virginia is gone.
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Terramaria
774 posts, read 843,532 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
More evidence of Philadelphia's southerness.



People often remark on Philadelphia's relaxed pace of life.



True dat.



True.
Wrong, that better describes Baltimore. It was the second-busiest port of immigration at the time had had heavy industry. My maternal grandfather was a first generation-American whose family emigrated from Italy and worked at the Chevrolet Plant in the mid-20th century. Philadelphia is a solid northeastern city and nowadays is NYC lite (and certainly more crowded than even Baltimore in its prime which itself was bustling back then). At the "Dixiest", Philadelphia was a northern city with some southern influences (climate mostly), but it was always anti-slavery, progressive and blue, and very few drawly accents. Philadelphia was historically part of New Sweden (today's Delaware, along with Delaware, Philadelphia, and Bucks Counties PA) and the only southern influence there came from Virginia (MD's southerness came from Virginia which in turn gave some of it to much of Delaware).

BTW, I just did a Google Images search for "Northeastern States" and took the first 50 results, and this is what I came up with for "southernmost northeastern state". Note that for maps where only parts of a state are visible, the southernmost state that is completely visible is included.

Connecticut: 1
New York: 3
New Jersey: 17
Delaware: 2
Maryland: 17
West Virginia: 3
Virginia: 4
Kentucky: 1
Illinois (with MD/DE in the Northeast and WV part of the South): 1
Missouri (!): 1 (all states with I-70 running through it and up are Northeastern)

Note that Pennsylvania didn't get a vote since far South Jersey extends below it and NJ is nearly universally considered Northeastern. One New York vote was for one map where only southern Fayette and Greene counties in PA weren't visible and most of Cape May county, NJ was missing. Another has only the northern half of NJ and northern two-thirds of PA. One New Jersey result excludes Pennsylvania while the rest includes it. One Delaware vote oddly includes the eastern shore of MD and VA but nothing else. Two Virginia votes (including one from va.gov) includes Ohio as part of the Northeast. The Connecticut vote has most of NYS along/west of Lake Ontario missing.

That said, its pretty clear that either New Jersey or Maryland is recognized as the southernmost state that can be classified as part of the Northeast, and Delaware is a poor choice since its mostly an extension of Maryland's Eastern Shore. This means that according to this survey, the majority consider MD to be northeastern, and that PA and NJ are nearly universally northeastern. Sure, other people have their opinions, but an aggregated search of multiple organizations/bureaus is one of the best tests we can determine to see which states belong to a particular area.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borntoolate85 View Post
Wrong, that better describes Baltimore. It was the second-busiest port of immigration at the time had had heavy industry. My maternal grandfather was a first generation-American whose family emigrated from Italy and worked at the Chevrolet Plant in the mid-20th century. Philadelphia is a solid northeastern city and nowadays is NYC lite (and certainly more crowded than even Baltimore in its prime which itself was bustling back then). At the "Dixiest", Philadelphia was a northern city with some southern influences (climate mostly), but it was always anti-slavery, progressive and blue, and very few drawly accents. Philadelphia was historically part of New Sweden (today's Delaware, along with Delaware, Philadelphia, and Bucks Counties PA) and the only southern influence there came from Virginia (MD's southerness came from Virginia which in turn gave some of it to much of Delaware).
The bolded was also true of Baltimore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Borntoolate85 View Post
BTW, I just did a Google Images search for "Northeastern States" and took the first 50 results, and this is what I came up with for "southernmost northeastern state".
A lot of those maps come from children's games and education lessons. Not really weighty. And Virginia certainly appears in more than four.

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/newsroo...ored_small.png

http://www.madico.com/wp-content/upl...er_updated.png

http://www.dep.state.fl.us/waste/ret.../US_Map_NE.jpg

http://www.vacationnortheastusa.com/...state_map2.jpg

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/theno...?cb=1268756166

http://faculty.smu.edu/rkemper/anth_...ast_Region.jpg

http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/csd/project...surfacemap.jpg

That's just a sample. Maryland became culturally northern around the 1980s or so.

When Did Maryland Stop Being Southern (and Become Mid-Atlantic)?

Virginia is just starting to turn the corner. As the state becomes bluer, and it becomes permanently solidified with the rest of the Northeast in its voting patterns, we're going to see its northeastern identity grow even stronger. According to the Anneneberg National Election Survey, Virginia was more socially liberal in 2000 than Pennsylvania was. It's gotten even more liberal in the past 14 years with Yankee culture flowing down I-95.

Even VA lawmakers don't consider Virginia really southern.

Quote:
"I do think we've reached a critical mass of some kind - we're not a real Southern state anymore," said former Virginia state senator Russell Potts.
Does Virginia still feel Southern? Not so much. | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Makes sense to me. Same thing that happened to Maryland is now happening to Virginia. By the time my kids are my age, they'll be saying "Virginia a southern state? Ha, that's a good one Dad!"
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:29 AM
 
1,243 posts, read 1,597,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
More evidence of Philadelphia's southerness.



People often remark on Philadelphia's relaxed pace of life.



True dat.



True.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Prove it. Where are the multitude of sources placing Philadelphia in the Northeastern United States?

If it were so simple, then you would simply supply the sources. But since there are hardly any sources supporting this assertion, it continues to be debated.

Philly, Baltimore and DC were all historically part of the South, but have now "de-southernized" after a massive influx of NYC/New England transplants. There was nothing northern about Philadelphia prior to 1970. The northern culture came from NYC.
What the quote that you quoted really says
Quote:
Baltimore has been described as a sleepy southern town and a commercial-industrial center. Its many nicknames include “Charm City” and “Mob Town.” With cities to the south, it shares longstanding trade routes, a relaxed pace of life, and a history deeply informed by slavery, Jim Crow, and the cultural influence of a centuries-old African American population. With cities to the north, it shares a history of industrialization (and deindustrialization) along with the ethnic diversity that comes from being a major port of immigration.
Quote:
After the Civil War, Baltimore continued to be a place of convergence and occasional conflict: an ethnically diverse, industrial, East Coast seaport with a recognizably southern disposition.
Quote:
Yet the pace of life remained slower than other industrial cities, and the city retained a small-town feel
Source 400 Years of History | Baltimore National Heritage Area


Since no one is picking up your reverse psychology or dry sarcasm of replacing statements that were really said about Baltimore/DC in with Philadelphia I suggest you change your method of explaining why the Northeast has always historically start at Philadelphia and above or else your just trolling. You know as a native Philadelphian that Philadelphia has always been a northeastern city because of its own natural development through many factors such as the native Quakers, Abolishnists and Immigration. Northeastern cities like Philadelphia, Trenton, Jersey city, NYC, Bridgeport, Hartford, Providence Boston etc have all been considered Northeastern and did not have a regional identification awareness complex like the transitional/grey area/southern-northern hybrid/ border cities of DC and Baltimore

Last edited by nephi215; 09-24-2014 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
Since no one is picking up your reverse psychology or dry sarcasm of replacing statements that were really said about Baltimore/DC in with Philadelphia I suggest you change your method of explaining why the Northeast has always historically start at Philadelphia and above. Philadelphia has always been a northeastern city because of its own natural development through many factors such as the native Quakers, Abolishnists and Immigration. Northeastern cities like Philadelphia, Trenton, Jersey city, NYC, Bridgeport, Hartford, Providence Boston etc have all been considered Northeastern and did not have a regional identification awareness complex like the transitional/grey area/southern-northern hybrid/ border cities of DC and Baltimore
Baltimore had Quakers and Abolitionists too! In fact, I believe, Maryland was founded by Quakers, which is one reason the state enjoys such a liberal reputation today.

It doesn't really matter since history is irrelevant anyway. The Jefferson Davis Highway runs directly through Alexandria. Do you think Alexandria is a southern city??? Virginia has two Democratic senators and a liberal Democratic governor. C'mon, man.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Raleigh is also becoming Northeastern much the way DC and Baltimore did. I don't think the whole state of North Carolina can ever be Northeastern, but Raleigh is clearly emerging as the tail end of the powerful BOSLEIGH corridor.

Quote:
If anything, people in Raleigh are sounding more Eastern than Southern, linguistics experts say. While characteristic accents linger in the rural South, urban centers along the East Coast talk more like each other.

Raleigh has some features that other cities along the Eastern Seaboard share, and Philadelphia has, historically, been one of these,” Dodsworth said in response to a question about Raleigh’s linguistic brethren. “Also D.C., Richmond, even Charleston, to some extent.”

The research, called the Raleigh study, has been going on for five years and will continue. Its finding that the Raleigh accent is disappearing heads immediately onto touchy ground – the changes that natives have seen and sometimes mourned during the decades of explosive growth that started in about 1965.

“If somebody would have asked me if there was a turning point, that’s what I would have said,” study participant Nancy Healy, 71, said of the IBM influx. “That’s when it started losing its Southern character.”
Raleigh has lost its drawl, y’all | Wake County | NewsObserver.com

Linguistically, Raleigh has more in common with Philadelphia than it does with other southern cities.
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Old 09-24-2014, 09:47 AM
 
Location: USA
8,016 posts, read 9,492,183 times
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VA, Maryland and DC began culturally southern but they are basically geographically northeastern on the map, even tho they are below the mason-dixon line, so that still does not make them totally culturally northern either and I highly doubt if they ever will be. It's not like millions of Virginians, Marylanders and DCers are just going to forget all their history in order to identify with the northern states.

Only stupid people or totally illiterate people forget who they are.
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
21,994 posts, read 27,293,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nephi215 View Post
No. All of the Jersey cities, Philadelphia and New York city etc are all both Northeastern cities and Mid Atlantic cities. The Northeast is a cultural region with two sub regions which are the upper Mid Atlantic (PA, NY, NJ) and New England (CT, RI, MA, NH, VT, ME) and also obviously it is a geographical location.
I'm a baby boomer. We were taught that the east coast is divided into 3 regions, New England, the MidAtlantic, & the South. There was no such thing as the Northeast & Southeast until Amtrak redivided the east coast. The Northeast rail corridor went from Boston to DC because that was the Megapolis.

When the mills closed in Philly the displaced mill workers went to North Carolina. It was no secret.
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Old 09-24-2014, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
28,266 posts, read 26,263,727 times
Reputation: 11726
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11KAP View Post
VA, Maryland and DC began culturally southern but they are basically geographically northeastern on the map, even tho they are below the mason-dixon line, so that still does not make them totally culturally northern either and I highly doubt if they ever will be.
Um, I'm pretty sure DC is culturally northeastern. You're not going to find this in southern cities.


Scene In: Dupont Circle - YouTube

Raleigh is also full of Yankee culture.


Greater Raleigh, North Carolina - YouTube
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