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Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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I think the aspects that make a city more Eastern VS Midwestern in scope and design is its HOUSING?
Why..... because the Northeast had. ROW-HOME STYLE and variations of them like half-doubles. As their primary housing stock. Even into the early early 20th century? Also Eastern cities have more pre-20th century housing. Which was Row types. Much right to the sidewalks on narrow streets
The Midwest has far less Row home stock. Like Chicago very little. It went to BUNGALOW-STYLE housing after ww1 as a primary housing stock. With narrow lots but with front lawns on streets a bit wider compared to the East.
So if Cleveland has a larger stock of Row home styles VS singles like Bungalow styles? On narrower street layouts like Philly or even Pittsburgh? Then I can agree more Eastern?
Some in the thread noted Cleveland has a separation by industrial areas between its downtown and residential? Though less today as Chicago now too, as gentrification spreads. Unlike Eastern cities with residential up to its downtown? That would sway it more Midwestern?
I don't think there is differences in people. Just local flavor in each making every city's local flavor with some uniqueness?
Of course I'm no scholar on this and I also don't think topography is a major reason to link more Eastern or Midwestern?
I think the aspects that make a city more Eastern VS Midwestern in scope and design is its HOUSING?
Why..... because the Northeast had. ROW-HOME STYLE and variations of them like half-doubles. As their primary housing stock. Even into the early early 20th century? Also Eastern cities have more pre-20th century housing. Which was Row types. Much right to the sidewalks on narrow streets.
The Midwest has far less Row home stock. Like Chicago very little. It went to BUNGALOW-STYLE housing after ww1 as a primary housing stock. With narrow lots but with front lawns on streets a bit wider compared to the East.
Again, New England did not have row home as their main housing style. Those it did have more small multi-family housing (triple deckers, two families, etc.) and houses tend to be closer to the street. From the 20s onward, the differences got smaller and were limited to the larger cities.
I think the aspects that make a city more Eastern VS Midwestern in scope and design is its HOUSING?
Why..... because the Northeast had. ROW-HOME STYLE and variations of them like half-doubles. As their primary housing stock. Even into the early early 20th century? Also Eastern cities have more pre-20th century housing. Which was Row types. Much right to the sidewalks on narrow streets
The Midwest has far less Row home stock. Like Chicago very little. It went to BUNGALOW-STYLE housing after ww1 as a primary housing stock. With narrow lots but with front lawns on streets a bit wider compared to the East.
So if Cleveland has a larger stock of Row home styles VS singles like Bungalow styles? On narrower street layouts like Philly or even Pittsburgh? Then I can agree more Eastern?
Some in the thread noted Cleveland has a separation by industrial areas between its downtown and residential? Though less today as Chicago now too, as gentrification spreads. Unlike Eastern cities with residential up to its downtown? That would sway it more Midwestern?
I don't think there is differences in people. Just local flavor in each making every city's local flavor with some uniqueness?
Of course I'm no scholar on this and I also don't think topography is a major reason to link more Eastern or Midwestern?
Housing styles aren't universal in the NE or the Midwest though... Boston isn't the same as Baltimore, and St. Louis isn't the same as Detroit for example (there are many more).
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesarstl
Housing styles aren't universal in the NE or the Midwest though... Boston isn't the same as Baltimore, and St. Louis isn't the same as Detroit for example (there are many more).
Still, where does Cleveland for example? Fall into common housing stock? What's most predominate?
--Row types including half-doubles (each side split in the middle is a home)?
Common in the Mid-Atlantic states to New England as part of the Northeast.
--Triple-Decker styles each level a flat.
As those common in parts of New England?
--Or more single 1 to 3 story homes with Bungalow-style pre-dominate post ww1, especially ww2? 2-flats and 3-flats mixed in with each level a apartment. One the owner generally lives in.
Common as the Midwest like Chicago did or St Louis.
Maybe it's half of each? I'd say it can play a roll in whether you see Cleveland as more Eastern or Midwestern?
Still, where does Cleveland for example? Fall into common housing stock? What's most predominate?
Perhaps one would argue that it's more similar to cities of the Interior Northeast like Buffalo and Rochester?
Being near the Northeast, Cleveland has some characteristics of a Northeastern city. Outside of the Northeastern U.S., it has the highest Italian, Irish, Polish, Jewish composition in the country. It also shares a fierce rivalry with a Northeastern city (Pittsburgh). Those are the only things I see that make it "Northeastern" per se.
Really, this question is simply answered by looking at a map and reading a bit of history. Having similarities with some cities in a different region doesn't mean that city is part of the same region.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Perhaps one would argue that it's more similar to cities of the Interior Northeast like Buffalo and Rochester?
Being near the Northeast, Cleveland has some characteristics of a Northeastern city. Outside of the Northeastern U.S., it has the highest Italian, Irish, Polish, Jewish composition in the country. It also shares a fierce rivalry with a Northeastern city (Pittsburgh). Those are the only things I see that make it "Northeastern" per se.
Really, this question is simply answered by looking at a map and reading a bit of history. Having similarities with some cities in a different region doesn't mean that city is part of the same region.
This is CHICAGO'S breakdown according to Wikipedia
German Americans made up 7.3% of the population, and numbered at 199,789;
Irish Americans also made up 7.3% of the population, and numbered at 199,294.
Polish Americans now made up 6.7% of Chicago's population, and numbered at 182,064.
Polish Americans are, by far, the largest European American ethnic group in the Chicago area, with as many as 1.5 million claiming Polish ancestry. In addition, Polish Americans in Chicago have a recent history of family members who came from Poland as many are first or second generation Poles as compared to many other ethnics who are third or fourth generation. Polish is the third largest speaking language in Chicago behind English and Spanish.
I always heard Chicago has the Largest Polish decent population outside of WARSAW, POLAND
Still, where does Cleveland for example? Fall into common housing stock? What's most predominate?
--Row types including half-doubles (each side split in the middle is a home)?
Common in the Mid-Atlantic states to New England as part of the Northeast.
--Triple-Decker styles each level a flat.
As those common in parts of New England?
--Or more single 1 to 3 story homes with Bungalow-style pre-dominate post ww1, especially ww2? 2-flats and 3-flats mixed in with each level a apartment. One the owner generally lives in.
Common as the Midwest like Chicago did or St Louis.
The bolded is among the most common old New England housing styles. Of course, triple-deckers are a type of those. I would call "half-doubles" semi-detached, haven't heard of that word before. Some photos of Boston I took. Outside of the area within 2 miles or so of downtown which is what many tourists see.
unusually narrow street:
there was one block that had row houses, but it certainly wasn't a common style (outside of near downtown). Of course, they would be even less common anyhwere in Cleveland. Here are some brownstone-ish rowhomes near downtown:
This is CHICAGO'S breakdown according to Wikipedia
German Americans made up 7.3% of the population, and numbered at 199,789;
Irish Americans also made up 7.3% of the population, and numbered at 199,294.
Polish Americans now made up 6.7% of Chicago's population, and numbered at 182,064.
Polish Americans are, by far, the largest European American ethnic group in the Chicago area, with as many as 1.5 million claiming Polish ancestry. In addition, Polish Americans in Chicago have a recent history of family members who came from Poland as many are first or second generation Poles as compared to many other ethnics who are third or fourth generation. Polish is the third largest speaking language in Chicago behind English and Spanish.
I always heard Chicago has the Largest Polish decent population outside of WARSAW, POLAND
And that's all probably true. Poles make up a larger share of the population in Chicago and cities of the Upper Midwest than they do in NYC, Boston and Philly. My point was that Italians, Irish, Jews and Poles make up a larger share of the population in Cleveland than in any metro that's not in the Northeastern U.S. Those four groups account for 26.69% of the Cleveland metro and 22.81% of the Chicago metro.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
And that's all probably true. Poles make up a larger share of the population in Chicago and cities of the Upper Midwest than they do in NYC, Boston and Philly. My point was that Italians, Irish, Jews and Poles make up a larger share of the population in Cleveland than in any metro that's not in the Northeastern U.S. Those four groups account for 26.69% of the Cleveland metro and 22.81% of the Chicago metro.
I don't want to split hairs? I really don't. But you wrote what I highlighted above ⤴ the 4 Groups?
But I only listed 3 Germans, Irish and Poles. You listed Italians, Irish, Poles and Jews. So even if we call it even with Germans and Italians? I should still add Jews to my %?
Chicago has one of the largest concentrations of Italian Americans in the US, with more than (500,000) living in the metropolitan Chicagoland . Chicago has the third largest Italian American population in the United States, behind only New York and Philadelphia.
American Community Survey.... says of Chicago City
I could only find the Metropolitan Chicagoland Jewish Population of Chicago (261.000)
*I just don't think debating %'s of those who link themselves in ethnicity counts matters, in whether Cleveland is more Eastern or Midwestern??
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