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View Poll Results: What is Texas?
The South 97 51.87%
The Southwest 22 11.76%
The West 1 0.53%
The Midwest 3 1.60%
Can't categorize it. It's just Texas. 64 34.22%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-27-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,752,754 times
Reputation: 2258

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Where we disagree is in the fact that you don't acknowledge that topography, climate, terrain, economy and weather are factors in the things that factor into "culture". You tend to go with migration patterns as the determining factor. Which is fine, but as I said earlier in the thread, is completely dismissing why there is controversy concerning this issue regarding Texas' southernness vs. it's south westernness.
No, where we disagree is that you keep asking if Texas is Southwestern or Southern, when I KNOW that it is Southern, and NOT Southwestern. If you take the time to read some of my earlier posts in this thread, you will clearly see where I said that Texas is an edge-Southern state that blends in with the cultures of the other regions surrounding it, like Mexico, the Cajun culture in Louisiana, the Great Plains, and the Southwest. The difference is, you seem to want to place a significantly large area of Texas in the Southwest, and that is just wrong. Period. It's not just my opinion, but classified as such by the U.S. Government, and taught as such in the legitimate institutions of learning (ie. School). If you really think the classification needs to be changed, then take it up with them. Good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
However, think of it this way. Do people who live along the gulf and say shrimp for a living? Are they culturally the same as the rancher/cowboy in Brewster county? or the dry land cotton farmer in Levelland? or the wheat farmer up in Perryton?
And what about the graphic designer in Dallas? Or the Hip-Hop record label president in Houston? Or the programmer in Austin? Did you know that wheat is a major crop in Washington state? How many people consider WA a "plains state"? There are tons of ranchers and cowboys in Alberta, Canada. Should we make Alberta a Southwestern state?

See, these things have very little to do with actual culture. What someone does for a living doesn't change the generations upon generations of culture that have been passed down theough the decades and centuries. I didn't live in Trans-Pecos TX, no. However, I spent enough time out there to get a pretty good feel for the local culture. Not just the Davis mountains or Ft. Davis, but also in towns like Alpine, Marfa, Van Horn, Presidio, and Sierra Blanca. Visually, these places looked nothing like anywhere else in Texas East of the Pecos river, but culturally, they weren't all that different to me. I mean, I grew up only 2 miles outside of downtown Houston. The schools I went to were a pretty even mix of Black, Hispanic (not just Mexican either), Asian, Middle-Eastern, and whites from all over the country. Even a few from Europe and Canada. Very few people spoke with thick Southern drawls. Still, I never once questioned that I was somehow NOT in the South. The South is a clearly defined region, that Texas is clearly a part of. Just because there are deserts in the Western part of the state, or high plains in the panhandle, or Spanish missions in South Texas... DOESN'T change that fact.

Call me "pissy" all you want. I'm ok with that. I just get sick of trying to explain this over and over when it should be very easy to comprehend.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: The Dirty South.
1,573 posts, read 1,430,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJG View Post
Ok.

Now go to San Antonio.
San Antonio isn't southwestern in culture. Its also much greener than the great southwest.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:32 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,154,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortCity View Post
I was in Houston for 5 days last week and I visited all parts of that city.And I would say that Houston felt southern.
You clearly didn't spend much time in the Asian and Hispanic neighborhoods then.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:33 PM
 
Location: The Dirty South.
1,573 posts, read 1,430,130 times
Reputation: 1097
Hill country in my opinion is a perfect mix of south and southwestern in looks and culture. Hill country is best of both worlds.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,752,754 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
You clearly didn't spend much time in the Asian and Hispanic neighborhoods then.
I seriously doubt he "visited all areas" of Houston as he claimed either. I spent 21 years living in that city and there were vast swaths of the metro I never got around to seeing. Houston is massive. Anyone who claims they saw the whole city in a few days is clearly lying.
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,865 posts, read 6,194,424 times
Reputation: 6161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
No, where we disagree is that you keep asking if Texas is Southwestern or Southern, when I KNOW that it is Southern, and NOT Southwestern. If you take the time to read some of my earlier posts in this thread, you will clearly see where I said that Texas is an edge-Southern state that blends in with the cultures of the other regions surrounding it, like Mexico, the Cajun culture in Louisiana, the Great Plains, and the Southwest. The difference is, you seem to want to place a significantly large area of Texas in the Southwest, and that is just wrong. Period. It's not just my opinion, but classified as such by the U.S. Government, and taught as such in the legitimate institutions of learning (ie. School). If you really think the classification needs to be changed, then take it up with them. Good luck.

I don't disagree that Texas is southern. And all of Texas is southern to some extent. It's just that west Texas is southwestern as well as southern. And east Texas is southern and not southwestern. And central Texas is some of both. So if I am forced to say that Texas is one or the other, I would swallow hard and agree with you. However, I am trying hard to explain why some people even have the remote idea that Texas is a southwestern state. Your response is "frontier south". Ok fine. As far as the government classifying Texas as "southern", since they can't cut states in two for those purposes, I have no problem, but I have also seen many sources classify it as southwestern.

And what about the graphic designer in Dallas? Or the Hip-Hop record label president in Houston? Or the programmer in Austin?

I'd call them "urban"

Did you know that wheat is a major crop in Washington state?
Yes
How many people consider WA a "plains state"? How many people consider WA a "plains state"?

The Palouse, where the wheat is grown is very much like the plains states. The distinctions between eastern Washington and western Washington are drastic. However, you are correct that it gets lumped into the "Pacific NW". But the Pacific NW is a simpler equation than "the south". There is east of the Cascades and West of the Cascades in basically two state and a smidge of California.

There are tons of ranchers and cowboys in Alberta, Canada. Should we make Alberta a Southwestern state?

Cowboys are mostly synonymous with the plain 'ole West. Not near as much in the south although there is a bit of Cowboy culture there. So Cowboys in Alberta are Cowboys because they are "Western" folks.
Texas Cowboys are "South Western" Cowboys, as are, New Mexico, Arizona and some Oklahoma Cowboys.

See, these things have very little to do with actual culture. What someone does for a living doesn't change the generations upon generations of culture that have been passed down theough the decades and centuries.

I disagree to some extent within the context of people who have lived in a place for 100 years or more. Their frontier ancestors lifestyles were dictated to a great degree by the local climate terrain and available cability to provide sustenance in their environment. However, if they moved somewhere in the last 50 years or so I am in complete agreement.


I didn't live in Trans-Pecos TX, no. However, I spent enough time out there to get a pretty good feel for the local culture. Not just the Davis mountains or Ft. Davis, but also in towns like Alpine, Marfa, Van Horn, Presidio, and Sierra Blanca. Visually, these places looked nothing like anywhere else in Texas East of the Pecos river, but culturally, they weren't all that different to me.

In my experience I was in all those places on a daily basis (with the exception of Van Horn and Sierra Blanca). Presidio is for sure not southern. Border town. The other three are that mix of southern and southwestern. The anglos are southern to some extent but have been cowboy/rancher types. But all these
places have been 50% hispanic/latino since forever.



The South is a clearly defined region, that Texas is clearly a part of. Just because there are deserts in the Western part of the state, or high plains in the panhandle, or Spanish missions in South Texas... DOESN'T change that fact.

It's fine if you want to have a rote definition of Texas and the South. There are people that I argue with on the Oklahoma board regarding this same issue all the time. "Oklahoma is the south. Period end of story," they say.
Quote:
Call me "pissy" all you want. I'm ok with that. I just get sick of trying to explain this over and over when it should be very easy to comprehend.
It is important to understand that I comprehend your argument. I even agree with you on a very simplistic, basal level. If you have to lump the entire state of Texas into one arbitrary cultural category……..it would be SOUTHERN.

Yet the fact that this topic comes up for discussion over and over again demonstrates that it really isn't a simplistic argument and I don't think the people who think Texas is southwestern have an argument that is completely without merit. But all of Texas is more "southern" than east Texas is "southwestern". Bobslawblog wins.

But the biggest question about this whole thread. Did Texas Reb die on us?
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Old 10-27-2014, 05:51 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
44,830 posts, read 36,186,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mega man View Post
That poster clearly didn't know what they were talking about anyway.

On a side note, I know there are definitely some parts of East Texas with a considerable amount of "Tex Mex" but I don't think that's necessarily the case for a great deal of the region. Many East Texas towns have populations that are barely more than 5% Hispanic and you can hardly find a decent taco anywhere.
Maybe so but if that's the case, I've never been through those towns.

I live in the Tyler/Longview area and this area is chock full of Hispanics AND great tacos!
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Old 10-27-2014, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,752,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I don't disagree that Texas is southern. And all of Texas is southern to some extent. It's just that west Texas is southwestern as well as southern. And east Texas is southern and not southwestern. And central Texas is some of both. So if I am forced to say that Texas is one or the other, I would swallow hard and agree with you. However, I am trying hard to explain why some people even have the remote idea that Texas is a southwestern state. Your response is "frontier south". Ok fine. As far as the government classifying Texas as "southern", since they can't cut states in two for those purposes, I have no problem, but I have also seen many sources classify it as southwestern.
I did state earlier that the Trans-Pecos part of Texas (not the panhandle) has Southwestern influence, and even conceded to the idea that El Paso and Hudspeth counties (ie. the part of Texas in the Mountain time zone) could arguably be classified as true Southwest. However, I strongly disagree about Central Texas having any real Southwestern traits. Cactus doesn't count. Central TX is Southern, through and through, though it has a unique culture of German, Czech, and Polish heritage that is a big influence on the local culture, and that even extends as far East as the Houston metro. I myself am a descendant of the Polish part of the equation. East TX can even be broken into two sub-regions: the mostly Protestant, Baptist Northeast part (Tyler, Longview, Lufkin, Nacogdoches, Texarkana) and the Cajun-tinged, Catholic-influenced Southeast part (Beaumont, Port Arthur, Orange, Big Thicket area, and some of Houston's far-East suburbs).

I actually do agree with you, though it's very rare, that some states could theoretically be broken into different regions. Nevada is a good example. IMO, only the Southern fifth of that state could accurately be considered Southwestern (ie. Las Vegas). Reno, Winnemucca, and Elko are clearly NOT Southwestern cities, they are just Mountain-West. Certain Great Plains states could be considered Midwestern in their Eastern halves, and more "Frontier-Western" in their Western halves. This has also been heavily debated in these forums. However, the census bureau makes their classifications based upon the more populated areas in each of these states, and in Texas, the vast majority of the state's population resides in the Eastern half of the state. Same goes for the Great Plains states (with the possible exception of South Dakota).

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Cowboys are mostly synonymous with the plain 'ole West. Not near as much in the south although there is a bit of Cowboy culture there. So Cowboys in Alberta are Cowboys because they are "Western" folks. Texas Cowboys are "South Western" Cowboys, as are, New Mexico, Arizona and some Oklahoma Cowboys.
To me, cowboys are just cowboys. Regardless of which state they're in. Their culture is fairly similar from Canada down to Mexico, and from California to Texas. And most true cowboys are pretty rare and endangered these days. Hardly a majority contingent in any state, province, or region.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
I disagree to some extent within the context of people who have lived in a place for 100 years or more. Their frontier ancestors lifestyles were dictated to a great degree by the local climate terrain and available cability to provide sustenance in their environment. However, if they moved somewhere in the last 50 years or so I am in complete agreement.
This ties in with what I was talking about just above. The percentage of population in the Western half of Texas versus the Eastern half is like comparing the population of Rhode Island to the population of Florida. Even more unbalanced if you remove El Paso from the equation. Sure, the rugged Western landscape and climate of far-West TX has had an impact on the local culture, but only on a very small contingent of people. Most people who live in El Paso aren't concerned with how to live off the land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
In my experience I was in all those places on a daily basis (with the exception of Van Horn and Sierra Blanca). Presidio is for sure not southern. Border town. The other three are that mix of southern and southwestern. The anglos are southern to some extent but have been cowboy/rancher types. But all these places have been 50% hispanic/latino since forever.
Houston is 36% Hispanic/Latino, and not only is it a huge city, but it's about as far removed from Trans-Pecos TX as it gets. That's not even taking into account all the other large international communities there. In my experience, just because someone is Hispanic but grew up in Texas, it doesn't make them any less Southern than Anglo/Protestant Texans. I know many Hispanics, both Mexican and several other nationalities in heritage, who self-identify as Southerners. I get your point though. Out there in the TP, the Southwestern influence is a big factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Yet the fact that this topic comes up for discussion over and over again demonstrates that it really isn't a simplistic argument and I don't think the people who think Texas is southwestern have an argument that is completely without merit. But all of Texas is more "southern" than east Texas is "southwestern". Bobslawblog wins.
Well, I wasn't trying to "win" anything. Just trying to explain why I agree with our government that Texas deserves it's Southern state classification, even if it is much more complex than other Southern states, which it most definitely is.
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Old 10-27-2014, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Mobile,Al(the city by the bay)
3,792 posts, read 6,526,063 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
You clearly didn't spend much time in the Asian and Hispanic neighborhoods then.
We have Asian ( Vietnemes) and Hispanic communities here in Mobile, Al though not as large being that my city is just over 600,000 but visiting the the Vietnamese communities in my city does not take away the fact that it still feels southern.

And yes we passed through the Hispanic communities especially when we had to detour because freeway 8 or what ever it's called was shut down when we were entering the city.The area was Hispanic but over all Houston still felt southern.

This was my first visit to the city and I have been to Atlanta several times. And from my 5 day stay I saw more southern courtesy in Houston than my visit in Atlanta through out the years.
Its the little subtle things that noticed.
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Old 10-27-2014, 08:42 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,752,754 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by PortCity View Post
We have Asian ( Vietnemes) and Hispanic communities here in Mobile, Al though not as large being that my city is just over 600,000 but visiting the the Vietnamese communities in my city does not take away the fact that it still feels southern.

And yes we passed through the Hispanic communities especially when we had to detour because freeway 8 or what ever it's called was shut down when we were entering the city.The area was Hispanic but over all Houston still felt southern.

This was my first visit to the city and I have been to Atlanta several times. And from my 5 day stay I saw more southern courtesy in Houston than my visit in Atlanta through out the years.
Its the little subtle things that noticed.
Glad you found Houston to be courteous and all, that's great... but there is NO WAY you saw the whole city in 5 days. Sorry, that's just not possible. Did you go to the Ghandi District? Gulfton? Alief? Montrose? 3rd Ward? Museum District? Rice Military/West End? Upper Kirby? The Heights? EaDo?
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