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View Poll Results: What is Texas?
The South 97 51.87%
The Southwest 22 11.76%
The West 1 0.53%
The Midwest 3 1.60%
Can't categorize it. It's just Texas. 64 34.22%
Voters: 187. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-01-2014, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Keizer, OR
1,376 posts, read 2,515,284 times
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Everything east of I-45 is the Deep South.
Everything west of the Pecos is the Desert Southwest.
In other words, the more west you go, the more Southwestern it is, and the further east you go, the more Southern it gets.
The reality is Texas is too big to be part of one region.
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,858 posts, read 6,191,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobilee View Post
Southern Appalachia was not mostly opposed to the Confederacy, that is a very old myth.

If anyone is interested in the Civil War in Appalachia Dr. Kenneth Noe of Auburn Univ. in Alabama gives a very interesting lecture here.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TSCspslpuM
Thank you for the link. However, in listening to the author and seeing the map he posted it was clear that while the people in Appalachia were split between the two sides, the rest of the south was solidly for the confederacy. Suffice it to say, that according to what he said and showed on the slides, that while not completely solid, the support there was for the union WAS in Appalachia.

What was even more interesting was that in Texas, it appeared that the majority of union support came from the Hill Country, San Antonio, the Red River Valley and what appears to be an isolated county in East Texas.

The Hill Country makes sense, San Antonio makes sense, I assume maybe the red river valley at that time may have been pioneered by Germans (Muenster?) but I wonder what county in east Texas was unionist and why?
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Old 11-02-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Dalton, Georgia, USA
24 posts, read 22,199 times
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I gotta say when I think of the US put into regions, most of the time Texas will fit in the south. It can certainly fit in the west as well, but my mind just thinks of it as part of the south. That's my opinion.
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Old 11-02-2014, 09:24 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
1,321 posts, read 2,746,465 times
Reputation: 1464
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Thank you for the link. However, in listening to the author and seeing the map he posted it was clear that while the people in Appalachia were split between the two sides, the rest of the south was solidly for the confederacy. Suffice it to say, that according to what he said and showed on the slides, that while not completely solid, the support there was for the union WAS in Appalachia.

What was even more interesting was that in Texas, it appeared that the majority of union support came from the Hill Country, San Antonio, the Red River Valley and what appears to be an isolated county in East Texas.

The Hill Country makes sense, San Antonio makes sense, I assume maybe the red river valley at that time may have been pioneered by Germans (Muenster?) but I wonder what county in east Texas was unionist and why?
I sometimes correspond with Dr. Noe, and after watching his lecture I told him the map he used was incorrect. Whoever the map maker was he used only 2 of the 3 popular votes on secession, Texas and Tennessee, but for Virginia he used the April 17 Convention vote instead of the May 23 popular vote.
This is the map Dr. Noe used in his lecture-

http://southcarolina1670.files.wordp...by-county2.jpg

This is the corrected map using Virginia's popular vote-

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/...a7712650_b.jpg

I don't see that the lower south was any less divided than Appalachia, particularly after the invasion of western Virginia.
This is how WV voted on May 23, 1861-
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5118/...1181ca71_b.jpg
You will note that the counties in the most mountainous parts of Appalachia voted for secession. It was the counties on the plateau near Ohio and Penn. that most supported the Union.

And this shows relative levels of Confederate recruitment in WV-
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3936/...60ed28bc_o.jpg
It would have been much higher but Union forces closed shut down recruitment in much of WV with
many volunteers trapped behind Union lines.

The lower south was not really "solid" as any number of recent Civil War histories have shown,
Bitterly Divided, The South's Inner Civil War
Rebel's Against the Confederacy, North Carolina's Unionists
Loyalty and Loss, Alabama's Unionists in the Civil War

Unionism in Appalachia has been heavily overstated.

As I said before, Texas as a western border state has trans-cultural influences as do the states on the northern border of the south, it is only natural.
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:38 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
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Quote:
=11KAP;37092842]Some of Texas is culturally southern and some of it is culturally southwestern, since we are talking about culture and not geography.
What about Texas is "culturally Southwestern" as in a kinship of historical/cultural with New Mexico and Arizona?

How did those states (which did not even become states at all until 1912 or so). The only part of Texas that really has any relation with the interior southwest states is the trans-pecos "horn" (and even El Paso voted for secession and has a Confederate monument). To repeat -- forever, I guess! LOL -- Texas as a whole is "southwestern" only in the sense of western South, not southern West (as in NM and AZ).

A real look into the history of the two indicates clearly two different "southwests".
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Old 11-02-2014, 11:47 PM
 
10,167 posts, read 17,115,139 times
Reputation: 5741
Quote:
=adventurernumber1;37122901]I gotta say when I think of the US put into regions, most of the time Texas will fit in the south. It can certainly fit in the west as well, but my mind just thinks of it as part of the south. That's my opinion.
Great post and point. The only thing I would quibble with -- and only a minor and understandable one -- is that with Texas, Southern and western are not at odds with each other, anymore than Midwestern and western are at odds in Kansas or Nebraska. Or being eastern and Southern are in conflict in South Carolina.

Whereas, on the other hand, Colorado and Wyoming can be called nothing but pure West...and New Mexico and Arizona anything but Southwest with nothing Southern about them.
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:51 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,152,116 times
Reputation: 3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
If that's the case, then why do YOU get a say in anything about Texas or the South?
I'm just stating what most of my Texan friends think on the subject.
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Old 11-03-2014, 01:58 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
5,286 posts, read 4,159,354 times
Reputation: 4349
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I'm just stating what most of my Texan friends think on the subject.
How many of these Texas friends are there? Funny how you just so happen to know exactly how most of them feel about this very specific subject.
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Who Cares, USA
2,343 posts, read 2,751,604 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I'm just stating what most of my Texan friends think on the subject.
I somehow seriously doubt that, and I'm even starting to wonder if you have any friends in Texas. For someone who has never lived there, you sure do seem to be posting a LOT about it. Unless of course all your "Texas friends" are goading you into it, since apparently they need you to be their spokesperson.
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Old 11-03-2014, 02:42 PM
 
5,368 posts, read 5,152,116 times
Reputation: 3308
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobloblawslawblog View Post
I somehow seriously doubt that, and I'm even starting to wonder if you have any friends in Texas. For someone who has never lived there, you sure do seem to be posting a LOT about it. Unless of course all your "Texas friends" are goading you into it, since apparently they need you to be their spokesperson.
I actually did live in Texas. For only two months. But I did live there, and I have dozens of friends in the Dallas area. Most of my friends are super super liberal and quite educated though, so are probably of the subset that tries to distance themselves from anything Southern.
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