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Old 10-26-2014, 09:33 AM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I know you wouldn't consider Arabians European. But the idea here was that Europeans and "West Eurasians" share genetic similarities. My point was that you could place the average European in a same room with average Saudi (and you didn't know their ethnic background) and no one would think they are related or even the same race.
I agree with the Saudi part. But most Middle Easterns don't look like Saudis. Northern Middle Easterners aren't that different from southern Europeans. Maybe not that typical, but here's the mayor of Tehran:

Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Anyway, 1 more thing that relates to Latinos is the fact that in some parts of the US, Spaniards aren't considered White. I've noticed this. It's like "oh they are European but they speak Spanish so...not White I guess"
Many Americans don't have a good idea of what Spaniards look like. They don't look that different from the average European. After coming back from Spain to the US, I thought: weird seeing all these non-white people speaking Spanish.
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Denver
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Another thread turned into a "who is white? what is white?" thread...

Why do so many people find this stuff interesting?
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Old 10-26-2014, 09:48 AM
 
Location: London, UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
I know you wouldn't consider Arabians European. But the idea here was that Europeans and "West Eurasians" share genetic similarities. My point was that you could place the average European in a same room with average Saudi (and you didn't know their ethnic background) and no one would think they are related or even the same race.

Anyway, 1 more thing that relates to Latinos is the fact that in some parts of the US, Spaniards aren't considered White. I've noticed this. It's like "oh they are European but they speak Spanish so...not White I guess"
I don't care how Spanish people ain't white in the US, I've noticed how some people say "Spanish" like its a race other there. Over here when we say Spanish we mean people from Spain while over the "pond" it seems Spanish people are interchangeable with Hispanic and Latino e.g. "exotic"
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P London View Post
I don't care how Spanish people ain't white in the US, I've noticed how some people say "Spanish" like its a race other there. Over here when we say Spanish we mean people from Spain while over the "pond" it seems Spanish people are interchangeable with Hispanic and Latino e.g. "exotic"
This is actually an East Coast thing that East Coast Hispanics say. I'm not sure where it comes from.

One the West Coast, Spanish means a person from Spain.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
most americans when they say hispanic they think mexicans

its funny because in south america is very different from mexico

no spicy food
no sombreros
no mariachi music
aztecs
all that stuff is mexico... you wouldn't find any of that in south america.... in south america you'd find tango, samba, bossa nova, lots of meat (south americans consume more meat than any other region of the world)....

as far as the people, the people are very mixed like folks in the US, from white, to black and everything in between... south americans look different from the traditional mexican folks

this is why in many ways south americans detest to be called Latinos, because it's a label that focuses almost exclusively on mexican people, and its not that we dislike mexicans but we are different, while mexicans are a huge diaspora in the US, south americans are mostly small immigrant communities

culturally speaking is just different

South America is a diverse region with many different countries and cultures. There are countries in South America that have many things in common with Mexico, such as Peru. Also, not all South Americans are similar or feel a connection to each other. Brazilians have no connections to Colombians. Chileans have no connections to Ecuadorians, etc...etc.. So why is it that you are clumping them together and speaking for millions of people with differing points of views?

One should only speak for themselves. I am married to a Brazilian and know many Brazilians and they could care less if someone confuses them for a Mexican, they have more important things to think about.

Another thing- I have been to Colombia, and I saw rancheras and mariachi music everywhere. There was even a Colombian novela called "La Hija del Mariachi" based around singing mariachi music.

So how are you guys so disconnected from Mexican culture again?

Each country is its own culture which is unique, yes. However, you relating to other people has more to do with your family values and your personal perspective.
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Old 10-26-2014, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by RudyOD View Post
You realize that sometimes this identity is thrown upon us? I always put OTHER on the U.S. census when it comes to race, despite the fact that to some I pass off as white, I have never and will never consider myself that as I am a Mexican of diverse genetic origins (Japanese, French, Native American, Spanish, Eastern European). I remember being in classes during junior high for standardized testing, and lots of Latino kids (predominantly Mexican and Central American) would raise their hand asking the teacher (white) what they should put down for race. There is no mestizo option, and in the U.S. 'mixed' is usually reserved for people who have parents of diverse backgrounds, not people of diverse heritage whose parents and grandparents and great grandparents (etc) are all mixed (or mostly are) like the majority of Mexicans. The teacher would many times tell the students to just mark off white. Their logic? The students aren't black and they aren't Asian, and they can't put Native American since it requires tribal affiliation, and most Mexicans have no idea what tribes their ancestors came from (no, not Aztec/Mexica despite the mythology.) So when these young minds are being told by their white teachers/professors/administrators that they should mark 'White', how confused do you think they become? Very.

I even had an incident at a clinic where I had marked 'other', and the nurse (in front of me) erased my answer and switched it to 'white'. That was a major WTF moment, of which I didn't bother saying anything about as I was dealing with more critical issues.

What's interesting about 'whiteness' and Mexican Americans is that both the Chicano and La Raza movements grew out as an anti-thesis to white Anglo America. Chicano's associated themselves and collaborated largely with Native Americans, and in many neighborhoods in LA with a strong Chicano presence, identity, you see strong links and symbolic gestures (like murals) to the Native American community. This despite the fact that genetically Californians of Mexican background are more European (Spanish) than Native, and with higher percentages on average than Mexicans from Mexico, similar to those of Northern Mexico. But, that's irrelevant, isn't it? If Mexican Californians have more kinship and attraction to their Native side, despite how big or small it might be within them, who are we to stop them? The Native communities have mostly received Mexicans/Central Americans with open arms, as opposed to mainstream white society.

If Native American identity weren't so closely linked to official tribes in the U.S., and more open on the census (like the other groupings), then I would argue that more Mexicans and Central Americans would easily choose Native/Indigenous over 'white'. Not all Mexicans think this way though, and it is a regional mindset to Californians that you won't see in a state like Texas (as much). I went through an identity crisis myself when I was younger. I spent lots of time reading literature on Native American life, culture etc, and especially on civilizations like the Mexica/Aztecs, Maya, Olmecs etc. It took me time, but thankfully I've learned to embrace my diverse heritage (including the European one, which I used to have a negative view of). For some reason, Mexicans in the U.S. (including myself at some point) have a disconnect with their very diverse heritage (Southern European, Native American, East Asian, African, West Asian, Sephardic Jewish etc), and therefore get stuck on this one sided "I have to choose" (between white or Native) mentality, instead of embracing the complete self.
This comment is spot on- you explained it so eloquently and well.

I think this is the best post about the topic.
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Old 10-26-2014, 01:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
Another thread turned into a "who is white? what is white?" thread...

Why do so many people find this stuff interesting?
Lol and the mods let these threads go on and on. City data should be renamed racial-analysis
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by waviking24 View Post
Lol and the mods let these threads go on and on. City data should be renamed racial-analysis
No, it should be renamed "Regional Re-Analysis"
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:44 PM
 
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its strange to go the US and hear people speak spanish and compare it to the people who speak spanish in europe

because the people who speak spanish in europe are either White/european/caucasian people for the most, or migrants to spain (arabs, asians, africans, jews, indians/pakistanis, and latin americans)... like yesterday I went out for drinks and the waiter was a pakistani guy who grew up in spain, so he spoke spanish the castilian way! and if you go to chinatown madrid its all chinese who speak spanish the castillian way, or africans or arabs from old spanish colonies who speak like spaniards.

When you go to the US however, spanish speakers look so indigenous, really amerindian (at least in California)

while in latin america you have like a rainbow of people who speak spanish, from blonde hair blue german descendants to black african descendants (this is why being called hispanic/latina in the US annoys me), I honestly don't consider myself any of that stuff!!!
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
its strange to go the US and hear people speak spanish and compare it to the people who speak spanish in europe

because the people who speak spanish in europe are either White/european/caucasian people for the most, or migrants to spain (arabs, asians, africans, jews, indians/pakistanis, and latin americans)... like yesterday I went out for drinks and the waiter was a pakistani guy who grew up in spain, so he spoke spanish the castilian way! and if you go to chinatown madrid its all chinese who speak spanish the castillian way, or africans or arabs from old spanish colonies who speak like spaniards.

When you go to the US however, spanish speakers look so indigenous, really amerindian (at least in California)

while in latin america you have like a rainbow of people who speak spanish, from blonde hair blue german descendants to black african descendants (this is why being called hispanic/latina in the US annoys me), I honestly don't consider myself any of that stuff!!!
Well that and Latin American variations of Spanish are far removed from the Castilian tongue. If I was to wager, I'd say the closest thing to Castilian would be to combine the dialect of Mexico City with Argentina and make the vowels lilt way more and make it rhotic to the nth degree.
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