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Old 10-30-2014, 03:20 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

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Location: Long Island / NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Rosie Perez wasn't a good example. She clearly has African ancestry. Just look at her nose and hair texture.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/ar...oads/perez.jpg

http://weadiamedia.com/wp-content/up...sie-perez1.jpg
Yep, I just glanced at her skin tone. I agree there's something about her features that didn't look quite white.
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Old 10-30-2014, 05:58 PM
 
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to answer the original posters question, I beleive many people assume "Hispanic" to be a racial classification because of two reasons

1. "Hispanic" is the only ethnic group with their own census classification. Since other ethnic groups do not have the option to check off a box on the census form, or other government documents, the designation seems to be more of a racial classification. since the other choices on government forms is usually Black, White, Asian which are not ethnic groups, so it is not logically consistent to have the Hispanic selection among the other choices which are racial classifications.

2. Many "Hispanics" did not want to be considered "white" so they lobbied for this special classification for political reasons. Mexicans back in the 60s considered themselves Chicano , but for political reasons decided to be grouped with Cubans and Puerto Ricans to create a larger political group.
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:06 PM
 
3,308 posts, read 2,768,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Part of the problem is conflating the two terms.

Caucasoid/Caucasian is pretty much an antiquated term, but modern genetics has shown that people from Europe, the Middle East, North Africa, and India are mostly speaking related to one another more closely than people elsewhere in the world. They don't use the term "race" any longer, but they do term roughly the same group of people now "West Eurasian."

In contrast, white as established in the U.S. is a social construct. U.S. history repeatedly shows that immigrant groups came to the U.S. and had their "whiteness" denied (beginning with Irish Catholics in the 1840s) and were eventually accepted as white within 2-3 more generations. Looking at the history of the U.S., and the recent trend towards assimilation of Latinos and Asians into mainstream "white" culture, it seems all you need to do to eventually be considered a white ethnicity in the U.S. is not be visibly black. Indeed, due to the history of the color line and slavery in the U.S., whiteness is, if anything, defined as the absence of blackness.


Iraqi Turkmen from Tal Afar. Notice how one gene - which results in red hair - makes an Iraqi look white. Shows how subjective perceptions of whiteness are.
I work with a red headed Iraqui woman who looks very similar to this man.

One of the most interesting classes I took in graduate school was the Politics of Immigration in the USA. We learned specifically about how race was constructed, controlled, and as you mentioned, how certain groups were excluded in these set categories.

Historically, I do know that due to segregation, Mexican-Americans long ago fought legally to be classified as Caucasians under the US racial categories.

Actually, the first legal case against segregation in the US was in the 1930's, brought on by Mexican-Americans:


THE LEMON GROVE INCIDENT
[url=http://www.ask.com/wiki/Lemon_Grove_Incident?o=2801&qsrc=999&ad=doubleDown &an=apn&ap=ask.com]Lemon Grove Incident - Ask.com Encyclopedia[/url]

The Lemon Grove Incident was an incident that occurred in 1930 and 1931 in Lemon Grove, California, where the local school board attempted to build a separate school for children of Mexican origin.

On July 23, 1930, the all-Anglo Lemon Grove school board decided to build a separate school for children of Mexican heritage without giving notice to their parents.[1] On January 5, 1931, Lemon Grove Grammar School principal Jerome Green, acting under instructions from school trustees, turned away Mexican children at the schoolhouse door, directing them to the new school, which came to be known within the local Mexican American community as la caballeriza, meaning "the stable".

However, the parents had instructed their children to return home if this were to happen, and the children obeyed. The parents refused to send their children to the new school, and since they were not allowed back at the main schoolhouse, this resulted in a boycott. The parents sought the assistance of the Mexican consul in San Diego, Enrique Ferreira, who put them in touch with two attorneys.

The landmark lawsuit resulting from the "Lemon Grove Incident" became the first successful school desegregation court decision in the history of the United States.[2] On March 9, 2007, the Lemon Grove School District recognized Roberto Alvarez, the schoolboy who was the lead plaintiff in the case. The auditorium at the Lemon Grove Middle School, which is on the site of the former grammar school, was dedicated in his honor.[3][4]

In the decision, the judge ruled that children of Mexican origin could not be segregated under the laws of the state of California, because they were "of the Caucasian race", and laws allowing the segregation of "Oriental", "Negro", and "Indian" children therefore did not apply.
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
the concept of race in america makes no sense

hispanic is so strange, I have such a hard time seeing myself as hispanic.... I just don't get it, like a black colombian is the same race as a white chilean or a chinese from panama is the same race as an arab from colombia, and a person from mexico is the same race as one of those german menonites from paraguay (it's weird)

but white too, like an albanian and a brit are COMPLETELY OPPOSITES, the only thing they can possibly have in common is that they are both from countries that happen to be located in europe, other than that they have absolutely nothing in common culturally or historically.

black doesnt make sense either.... a black person from colombia is not the same as a black british, or a black french is very different from a nigerian, an american black is different from a black from portugal, it's all very different cultures and mindsets.

'I think the American categorization of race is not scientific at all, neither is culturally sensitive.... it;s just strange and archaic.
I agree that Hispanic is not a race.

However, your comparisons fall short due to your lack of knowledge of Mexico.

a person from Mexico can be the same race as 'one of those German Mennonites from Paraguay,' because guess what? There is a substantial Mennonite community in Mexico. It is especially large in the state of Chihuahua.

[youtube]2vjEbHs9Kug[/youtube]
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vjEbHs9Kug]Abraham Peters, menonita de Ciudad Cuauhtemoc, Chihuahua, Mexico - YouTube[/url]
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irene-cd View Post
interesting, I have barely had any interaction with mexican folks as in south america there are very few, in my country there are like 6 thousand mexicans total (so you wouldn't come across mexicans on a daily basis)

and in Europe most mexicans are either rich white students mostly in spain or random tourists. My idea of mexicans come mostly from typical sombrero guys, pancho villa looking ones, the only true interaction most people at least from my country would have with mexicans face to face would be if you go to mexico or the USA.

I always imagined mexicans to be sort of indigenous, at least that is the impression one gets, but I have seen white ones, it's just the indigenous looking ones are quite common and those are the ones one get to often see or probably identify since those are the ones who actually do look stereotypically mexican.... the blonde ones or even black ones one wouldn't imagine as mexican i guess.

You want to promote South America's diversity, but want to continue believing and promoting a very archaic view of what Mexicans 'are supposed to be.'


A little contradictory, isn't it?
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Old 11-01-2014, 12:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosa surf View Post
You want to promote South America's diversity, but want to continue believing and promoting a very archaic view of what Mexicans 'are supposed to be.'


A little contradictory, isn't it?
I live in Chicago and Mexico's diversity shows in neighborhoods like West Lawn, where you see Mediterranean looking Mexicans, Asian looking Mexicans, those in between, and the rare Nordic Mexican. I have seen probably 2 Nordic Mexicans in my life but both were very proud. One even had a tattoo of the Central American Long Count Calendar (known as the Mayan Calendar colloquially). The guy knew his ancestors were all European, but his culture was Mexican so he was proud of being it.
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:22 AM
 
Location: Hollywood, CA
1,576 posts, read 2,539,287 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Spaniards don't look very "white" to me. Many Roger Federer fans, for example, make it astoundingly clear that Rafael Nadal is a "sand monkey" after he beats Roger over and over and over and over and over again (European sport fans beez racist like that!).

Rafael Nadal

http://rafaelnadalfans.files.wordpre...s-shirts-2.jpg

Carlos Moya

http://tennisconnected.com/home/wp-c...-Interview.jpg

Conchita Martinez

http://estaticos03.elmundo.es/elmund...45107905_0.jpg

Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (the Barcelona Bumblebee)

http://www.fotonostra.com/albums/cel...txasanchez.jpg

Spain's Davis Cup Team

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/R...WTEjTCj9Kl.jpg
The majority of Spanairds don't look like Rafeal Nadal or Penelope Cruz. Most Spanairds are similar in looks to French people, but just darker haired than most Central/Northern European peoples. And historically, Spaniards are the original "White people". As they called themselves "White" in contrast to West African and Native American peoples.


Can you really spot the Spanish exchange students from the White Americans in this photo?
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Old 12-03-2014, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Hollywood, CA
1,576 posts, read 2,539,287 times
Reputation: 1119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
Spaniards don't look very "white" to me. Many Roger Federer fans, for example, make it astoundingly clear that Rafael Nadal is a "sand monkey" after he beats Roger over and over and over and over and over again (European sport fans beez racist like that!).

Rafael Nadal

http://rafaelnadalfans.files.wordpre...s-shirts-2.jpg

Carlos Moya

http://tennisconnected.com/home/wp-c...-Interview.jpg

Conchita Martinez

http://estaticos03.elmundo.es/elmund...45107905_0.jpg

Arantxa Sanchez-Vicario (the Barcelona Bumblebee)

http://www.fotonostra.com/albums/cel...txasanchez.jpg

Spain's Davis Cup Team

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/R...WTEjTCj9Kl.jpg
The majority of Spanairds don't look like Rafeal Nadal or Penelope Cruz. Most Spanairds are similar in looks to French people, but just darker haired than most Central/Northern European peoples.

This is what Spanish look like on average.




Can you really spot the Spanish exchange students from the White Americans in this photo? 6 of them are from Spain.

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Old 12-03-2014, 12:38 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
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Fourth from left, third from right are probably Spanish. Third from left could be, too.
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Old 12-03-2014, 12:50 PM
nei nei won $500 in our forum's Most Engaging Poster Contest - Thirteenth Edition (Jan-Feb 2015). 

Over $104,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum and additional contests are planned
 
Location: Long Island / NYC
45,991 posts, read 42,008,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hipcat View Post
This is what Spanish look like on average.
After visiting Spain, a lot of them look Spanish. But of course many could pass for white American, with some dress differences. I remember in Spain, I'd sometime think: "oh, they look American". Until they opened their mouth and I heard Spanish.
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