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Old 10-21-2014, 12:31 AM
 
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The term Hispanic is a pan cultural group!
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:33 AM
 
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The term Hispanic was adopted by the United States government in the early 1970s during the administration of Richard Nixon after the Hispanic members of an interdepartmental Ad Hoc Committee to develop racial and ethnic definitions recommended that a universal term encompassing all Hispanic subgroups—including Central and South Americans—be adopted. As the 1970 census did not include a question on Hispanic origin on all census forms—instead relying on a sample of the population via an extended form ("Is this person's origin or descent: Mexican; Puerto Rican; Cuban; Central or South American; Other Spanish; or None of these")—the members of the Ad Hoc Committee wanted a common designation to better track the social and economic progress of the group vis--vis the general population. The designation has since been used in local and federal employment, mass media, academia, and business market research. It has been used in the U.S. Census since 1980. Because of the popularity of "Latino" in the western portion of the United States, the government adopted this term as well in 1997, and used it in the 2000 census.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:36 AM
 
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Some idiots want to make Hispanic race and are trying to make it a race. Sadly, Hispanics and non Hispanics alike perpetuate this ignorance!
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Legally speaking, Hispanics have basically never been considered a race. The last Census did not consider Hispanic/Latino a race, but a separate box you check along with your race. IIRC except for the 1930 census (which had Mexican as a race) they were always considered white on the Census historically speaking. Unlike Blacks, Asians, and Native Americans they were never subject to any Jim Crow laws, they never attended segregated schools, could always intermarry with Anglos, and had property rights which were mostly unimpeded by restrictive covenants. That isn't to say that there wasn't some animus against them at various times in U.S. history, but it was no worse than many European immigrant groups had. For example, in 1900 or so Finns were not allowed to vote in Minnesota (on the grounds of purported "Mongol ancestry" but Hispanics were.

Colloquially speaking, I think it varies a lot depending upon the part of the country you're in. I think that the idea Hispanic is a "race" is more common in the West, where most Hispanics are Mexican or Central American, and have a similar (e.g., Mestizo) look. I think it's less common on the East Coast, because people have experience with Latinos who look white and black as well. So while it might be considered a large "family" of ethnic groups, it's not seen as a race thing.

I also think that any idea that Latino is a race is going to ultimately be transitory. I have friends who were adopted as children from Columbia, and don't speak a lick of Spanish. Socially speaking, they "pass" as white perfectly. More and more people will be in this position as we get to 3rd/4th generation Hispanics, particularly ones who are half Anglo (or something else).

It's also worth noting that race in the social sense is different from race in the genetic sense anyway. I mean, there are some black Americans who are actually 50% or more white in terms of their DNA, but they still identify as being black rather than white due to their upbringing. Who are we to say they are wrong about their self identity?
Hispanics are defaulted to the WHITE race for census purposes and demographics.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Legally speaking, Hispanics have basically never been considered a race. The last Census did not consider Hispanic/Latino a race, but a separate box you check along with your race. IIRC except for the 1930 census (which had Mexican as a race) they were always considered white on the Census historically speaking. Unlike Blacks, Asians, and Native Americans they were never subject to any Jim Crow laws, they never attended segregated schools, could always intermarry with Anglos, and had property rights which were mostly unimpeded by restrictive covenants. That isn't to say that there wasn't some animus against them at various times in U.S. history, but it was no worse than many European immigrant groups had. For example, in 1900 or so Finns were not allowed to vote in Minnesota (on the grounds of purported "Mongol ancestry" but Hispanics were.

Colloquially speaking, I think it varies a lot depending upon the part of the country you're in. I think that the idea Hispanic is a "race" is more common in the West, where most Hispanics are Mexican or Central American, and have a similar (e.g., Mestizo) look. I think it's less common on the East Coast, because people have experience with Latinos who look white and black as well. So while it might be considered a large "family" of ethnic groups, it's not seen as a race thing.

I also think that any idea that Latino is a race is going to ultimately be transitory. I have friends who were adopted as children from Columbia, and don't speak a lick of Spanish. Socially speaking, they "pass" as white perfectly. More and more people will be in this position as we get to 3rd/4th generation Hispanics, particularly ones who are half Anglo (or something else).

It's also worth noting that race in the social sense is different from race in the genetic sense anyway. I mean, there are some black Americans who are actually 50% or more white in terms of their DNA, but they still identify as being black rather than white due to their upbringing. Who are we to say they are wrong about their self identity?
People of all races in the USA are Anglos, just like how people of all races from Spanish speaking countries are "Hispanics"
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
^^Hispanics from Mexico and Central/South America are more accurately bi-racial, e.g. part Native American and part European.
People from Central America and a South America are often tri racial and are mixed with black, Native American, and white, and even Asian etc and much more
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Again, exactly what percentage of European DNA does someone need to have before you can call them white? 50%? 66%? 75%? Please tell me. And if not based upon DNA, which is at least objective, how are we to determine who is white and who isn't?

Obama being considered to look black and not white when he's a 50/50 mix is mostly due to the history of one-droppism in the U.S. Look at some half white/half Asian people like Jennifer Tilly, Karen O, and Vanessa Hudgens. They certainly "pass" for white much easier than someone half (or arguably even a quarter) black does.
That depends on perception. Daddy Yankee is clearly mulatto looking yet many in media seem to be able to overlook or excuse the black ancestry in him lots of times simply because he speaks Spanish
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
It really does boggle my mind that people in other parts of the country have such restrictive definitions of white. At least four of the Hispanics that hobbesdj showed pictures of look to clearly be "white" to me. Where I grew up in Connecticut, by the standards suggested, virtually no one was white, because over half the people were of Italian, Portuguese, or Jewish descent.

And in my own personal experience, yes, basically everyone from a European country is considered white. And also a lot of people from the Middle East (particularly Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran) provided they don't wear a hijab or something.



Most really aren't anywhere near as mixed as Latinos honestly. Most Muslim Arabs have some black African ancestry, but it's on the order of 5%-20% depending upon the country. Until you get to Central Asia or Afghanistan, there really isn't a measurable proportion of Asian ancestry (except a few percent in the Turks). For the most part, peoples in the Near East are a mixture of different populations which geneticists call "West Eurasian" - which is the same population group as Europeans. The bottom line is genetically speaking everyone from Norway to Yemen really is pretty much the same race.
Keep in mind that Arabs can be of any race or any religion. There are Arab Jews, Arab Christians, and Arab Muslims etc.
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Old 10-21-2014, 12:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by EddieOlSkool View Post
Pretty much the same race as in Caucasoid. But when you go into certain parts of East Africa, people there are Caucasoid as well. Some Sudanese people have straight hair and similar features to Mediterranean people, but nobody calls them White.

White is generally agreed upon as having fair skin. Yemeni people don't have fair skin. Neither do Sudanese people or many Southern Mediterraneans. I think maybe olive skin is the upper limit for what can pass as White. Where I work we have a few people from the Arabian peninsula, and even when they don't wear Muslim garb they don't really pass off as White. North Indians are also Caucasoid as well but nobody really considers them White. You seem to have a "Pan-Aryan" view, it seems. You are definitely in the minority in believing that a Swede is the same race as a Yemeni. I don't know many people who adhere to that. Probably in forensic anthropology they are the same race, but by most people's standards (which is what determines race to begin with and NOT science since biological race is non-existent), Yemenis aren't White.

I'm not saying you are wrong in classifying people from Yemen and Sweden as the same race. I'm just saying that it's very rare that people go by the whole "Caucasoid" principle. And you'd be far pressed to find anyone who thinks most Arabs or West Asians look White, even without traditional garb. There are RARE fair skinned types, but they are not the rule.
Caucasoid is an arbitrary parameter created in the 19th century. It is a residue, an anachronism. Two people can be 'Caucasoid' and not be closely related. Craniofacial plasticity is much more variable than was originally thought, so racial claims on craniofacial parameters are foolish. In microcosms, you might be able to show some relationship, but in global macrocosms, there are more mistakes than accuracy. Polytopicity is when two different groups of organisms that are not related end up having similar traits.

More like, if they are in similar environments, common factors may play a role in similar attributes. For example people in the circum Sahara developed thinner noses overall because of the dryer, hotter air. In Europe the colder dryer air had a similar effect. When we see broader features, they tend to be more recent migrations to dryer regions from more humid climates. Of course other factors can come into play as well. For example Neanderthals had wide nasal cavities but a very long nose that did a similar function to a thin nose. Clothing has played a huge role in allowing people with certain traits to migrate to regions they did not do so well in naked.

Humanity is infinitely diverse and a beautiful thing. We are playdoh to the environment. And now we change the environment to us.
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Old 10-21-2014, 01:05 AM
 
Location: Keizer, OR
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It's annoying because according to the US Census definitions, I would fall under the Hispanic group because I'm of Spaniard descent. I also have blond hair and blue eyes, and a lot of people say 'you don't look Hispanic'.
It's also fun being around people who talk crap about others in Spanish, and then getting all shocked when I retort in fluent Spanish.
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